WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.763 (lively piano music) 2 00:00:10.617 --> 00:00:12.579 - Hi there everybody. 3 00:00:12.579 --> 00:00:15.950 - [Woman] There's a lot. 4 00:00:16.383 --> 00:00:18.152 I knew there was a lot of people involved 5 00:00:18.152 --> 00:00:19.589 but gosh, they got the room, 6 00:00:19.589 --> 00:00:21.723 a crowd of people sitting on the floors, 7 00:00:21.723 --> 00:00:23.365 people coming out of the woodwork 8 00:00:23.365 --> 00:00:25.329 looking for (mumbles). 9 00:00:25.329 --> 00:00:26.246 - Yeah. 10 00:00:26.246 --> 00:00:28.731 - (baby jabbers) 11 00:00:28.731 --> 00:00:31.206 - The question is that, your family 12 00:00:31.206 --> 00:00:36.206 has at least 20 people involved with you, 13 00:00:36.486 --> 00:00:39.008 and so, they are all there. 14 00:00:39.008 --> 00:00:40.163 - I see. 15 00:00:40.163 --> 00:00:42.413 And all of them are people 16 00:00:42.413 --> 00:00:44.270 that in some way or another 17 00:00:44.270 --> 00:00:46.245 have been involved with you. 18 00:00:46.245 --> 00:00:47.024 - True. 19 00:00:47.024 --> 00:00:48.165 But see, this is where 20 00:00:48.165 --> 00:00:49.125 the questions come in. 21 00:00:49.125 --> 00:00:51.899 - What I don't know, is if all these 22 00:00:51.899 --> 00:00:56.899 many people are, it is good to have 23 00:00:56.901 --> 00:00:59.003 all these many people. 24 00:00:59.003 --> 00:01:01.041 How many of them are good 25 00:01:01.041 --> 00:01:03.389 and how many of them are not good? 26 00:01:03.389 --> 00:01:04.829 - [Voiceover] It is common for 27 00:01:04.829 --> 00:01:06.534 poor families to be involved 28 00:01:06.534 --> 00:01:09.112 with a multitude of helpers. 29 00:01:09.404 --> 00:01:12.460 This tape will examine this phenomenon. 30 00:01:12.626 --> 00:01:14.311 It will highlight the kind of thinking 31 00:01:14.311 --> 00:01:16.242 that gives rise to the proliferation 32 00:01:16.242 --> 00:01:18.854 of disconnected services and it will 33 00:01:18.854 --> 00:01:21.269 explore the frequently unfortunate effects 34 00:01:21.269 --> 00:01:24.492 this proliferation has on families. 35 00:01:24.829 --> 00:01:26.610 The tape is based on a consultation 36 00:01:26.610 --> 00:01:28.765 of Doctor Salvador Minuchin, 37 00:01:28.765 --> 00:01:32.493 with the family of Marci and Wilfredo. 38 00:01:32.627 --> 00:01:34.951 Marci and Wilfredo have two children, 39 00:01:34.951 --> 00:01:37.708 both of whom are in foster care. 40 00:01:37.708 --> 00:01:39.510 The social worker assigned to the case 41 00:01:39.510 --> 00:01:41.430 by the foster care agency, 42 00:01:41.430 --> 00:01:44.077 introduces us to the family members. 43 00:01:44.077 --> 00:01:46.114 - [Voiceover] Wilfredo I know best. 44 00:01:46.114 --> 00:01:48.258 He has brought himself through a lot. 45 00:01:48.258 --> 00:01:50.360 His legs are very small. 46 00:01:50.360 --> 00:01:52.760 He has this brittle bone syndrome 47 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:54.413 and he's gone through a lot of suffering 48 00:01:54.413 --> 00:01:57.634 physically and he has developed 49 00:01:57.634 --> 00:01:59.138 a kind of physical will power. 50 00:01:59.138 --> 00:02:02.114 He gets himself around with a wheelchair. 51 00:02:03.916 --> 00:02:05.101 He gets money from begging 52 00:02:05.101 --> 00:02:06.381 and performing a kind 53 00:02:06.381 --> 00:02:09.463 of lap dancing thing on subways. 54 00:02:09.463 --> 00:02:12.077 He's very, kind of, bonded very, very 55 00:02:12.077 --> 00:02:14.563 strongly with the older child, 56 00:02:14.563 --> 00:02:15.939 who is the sick one, has the same 57 00:02:15.939 --> 00:02:17.880 disease he has. 58 00:02:17.880 --> 00:02:19.202 The other child went right into 59 00:02:19.202 --> 00:02:21.378 foster care from the hospital. 60 00:02:21.378 --> 00:02:22.264 So there's almost no 61 00:02:22.264 --> 00:02:23.404 bonding with that child. 62 00:02:23.404 --> 00:02:25.164 That's a real problem. 63 00:02:25.164 --> 00:02:27.981 Mother has been into three drug programs 64 00:02:27.981 --> 00:02:32.981 and she has not stayed with any of them 65 00:02:33.357 --> 00:02:36.012 for the length of time that she needed to. 66 00:02:36.012 --> 00:02:37.996 The last two she was in, she went right 67 00:02:37.996 --> 00:02:39.670 back onto the street. 68 00:02:39.670 --> 00:02:40.195 - [Voiceover] Present in 69 00:02:40.195 --> 00:02:42.369 the consultation room with the family, 70 00:02:42.369 --> 00:02:44.169 was one of Marci's therapist's 71 00:02:44.169 --> 00:02:45.226 from her most recent 72 00:02:45.226 --> 00:02:46.763 drug treatment program, 73 00:02:46.763 --> 00:02:48.885 seated here on the left. 74 00:02:48.885 --> 00:02:50.711 The foster mother of Abril, 75 00:02:50.711 --> 00:02:53.270 Marci and Wilfredo's youngest child. 76 00:02:53.270 --> 00:02:57.132 The foster mother of Jasmine on the left 77 00:02:57.132 --> 00:03:00.338 and the foster care social worker. 78 00:03:00.452 --> 00:03:02.915 Prior to the consultation, Dr. Minuchin 79 00:03:02.915 --> 00:03:05.873 met with the staff of the foster care agency 80 00:03:05.873 --> 00:03:07.888 and with three member s of the staff 81 00:03:07.888 --> 00:03:09.601 of the drug treatment program 82 00:03:09.601 --> 00:03:11.888 to discuss the case. 83 00:03:12.012 --> 00:03:13.292 Minuchin opened the discussion 84 00:03:13.292 --> 00:03:17.219 with a question to the drug treatment staff. 85 00:03:18.795 --> 00:03:20.743 - [Minuchin] So you have this woman 86 00:03:20.743 --> 00:03:25.297 for three months and you have Martin, 87 00:03:25.297 --> 00:03:29.054 this social worker of this family 88 00:03:29.054 --> 00:03:32.980 and you have these two children 89 00:03:32.980 --> 00:03:35.602 and you have these two foster mothers, 90 00:03:35.602 --> 00:03:38.780 so we have a very complex model. 91 00:03:38.780 --> 00:03:43.350 How do you fit in that model? 92 00:03:46.621 --> 00:03:50.302 - Really, on the outside. 93 00:03:50.302 --> 00:03:51.527 - [Minuchin] On the outside. 94 00:03:51.527 --> 00:03:53.821 - A sense of trying to coordinate 95 00:03:53.821 --> 00:03:56.424 Marci's treatment for her own 96 00:03:56.424 --> 00:03:59.880 individual growth and attempting 97 00:03:59.880 --> 00:04:03.219 to find ways of getting her back into 98 00:04:03.219 --> 00:04:06.349 a family if that's what she chooses to do. 99 00:04:09.864 --> 00:04:12.754 - [Minuchin] You're focusing only on her? 100 00:04:12.754 --> 00:04:14.130 - Uh-huh. 101 00:04:14.130 --> 00:04:15.571 - [Minuchin] And you want her 102 00:04:15.571 --> 00:04:18.388 to focus only on you? 103 00:04:18.388 --> 00:04:21.941 - No, Marci needs to focus really 104 00:04:21.941 --> 00:04:24.202 on her own individual needs. 105 00:04:24.202 --> 00:04:27.740 All we do is try to facilitate that process. 106 00:04:27.740 --> 00:04:29.265 - Key piece is that she's no longer 107 00:04:29.265 --> 00:04:31.037 our client because she left 108 00:04:31.037 --> 00:04:33.977 the program of her own accord. 109 00:04:41.876 --> 00:04:43.383 - [Voiceover] Treatment in this perspective 110 00:04:43.383 --> 00:04:45.345 requires that Marci explore 111 00:04:45.345 --> 00:04:47.906 her individual self and address 112 00:04:47.906 --> 00:04:50.418 her individual needs. 113 00:04:50.530 --> 00:04:51.947 This perspective place the drug 114 00:04:51.947 --> 00:04:53.526 treatment staff at odds with 115 00:04:53.526 --> 00:04:56.838 the agenda of the foster care agency. 116 00:04:57.420 --> 00:04:59.201 - [Minuchin] When you said you were 117 00:04:59.201 --> 00:05:00.113 a source of (mumbles), 118 00:05:00.113 --> 00:05:02.484 what does it mean? What do you do? 119 00:05:02.832 --> 00:05:04.843 - That's a good question. 120 00:05:09.652 --> 00:05:12.259 I would like to be a helper in joining 121 00:05:12.259 --> 00:05:13.539 the family back together. 122 00:05:13.539 --> 00:05:16.958 The situation is that this family 123 00:05:16.958 --> 00:05:18.594 has a reach to come back together. 124 00:05:18.594 --> 00:05:21.496 They have lots of things pulling them apart. 125 00:05:21.496 --> 00:05:22.829 - Do you want to say something? 126 00:05:22.829 --> 00:05:26.303 - Yes, I would think that it seems 127 00:05:26.303 --> 00:05:28.297 that the main issue which is-- 128 00:05:28.297 --> 00:05:29.160 - [Minuchin] Just a bit louder please. 129 00:05:29.160 --> 00:05:30.740 - I would think, it seems that one 130 00:05:30.740 --> 00:05:32.948 of the main issues which would be 131 00:05:32.948 --> 00:05:34.867 a difference perhaps between 132 00:05:34.867 --> 00:05:38.696 when we saw the family (mumbles) 133 00:05:38.696 --> 00:05:39.815 perhaps you're seeing her on here 134 00:05:39.815 --> 00:05:42.160 and you describe her. 135 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:43.567 Whether the family should actually 136 00:05:43.567 --> 00:05:46.703 stay together or not stay together. 137 00:05:46.703 --> 00:05:49.627 And we've, through our assessment, 138 00:05:49.627 --> 00:05:51.707 in terms of Marci's drug history 139 00:05:51.707 --> 00:05:53.733 and so on, it seems that Wilfredo 140 00:05:53.733 --> 00:05:57.064 and Marci have a very difficult relationship 141 00:05:57.064 --> 00:05:59.685 that is at times abusive. 142 00:06:00.130 --> 00:06:03.342 - [Minuchin] (mumbles) 143 00:06:03.342 --> 00:06:06.031 - He is abusive to her, physically abusive. 144 00:06:06.031 --> 00:06:08.315 - [Minuchin] Physically abusive, oh. 145 00:06:08.315 --> 00:06:11.911 - And I think Marci is very ambivolant 146 00:06:11.911 --> 00:06:13.650 as to whether she wants to go back 147 00:06:13.650 --> 00:06:15.218 whether she wants even to have 148 00:06:15.218 --> 00:06:17.161 her children back, whether she feels 149 00:06:17.161 --> 00:06:19.744 capable as a mother for these children. 150 00:06:19.744 --> 00:06:21.563 And I think it's a big issue for her. 151 00:06:21.563 --> 00:06:23.982 And I think in a lot of ways, 152 00:06:23.982 --> 00:06:27.469 she's working from a fear base. 153 00:06:27.469 --> 00:06:30.641 - Prior to Marci's leaving our program, 154 00:06:30.641 --> 00:06:33.969 I know that she was being confronted 155 00:06:33.969 --> 00:06:36.112 by other members of the program 156 00:06:36.112 --> 00:06:38.950 on her attitude about her family 157 00:06:38.950 --> 00:06:40.753 and her place in her family 158 00:06:40.753 --> 00:06:45.555 and how responsible she felt 159 00:06:45.555 --> 00:06:47.507 for the family and that she needed 160 00:06:47.507 --> 00:06:49.875 to protect them but then again, 161 00:06:49.875 --> 00:06:51.168 she didn't want to protect them, 162 00:06:51.168 --> 00:06:53.130 she wanted her own life but then again, 163 00:06:53.130 --> 00:06:55.455 and they were saying, hey wait a minute 164 00:06:55.455 --> 00:06:56.970 and a lot of residents in the program 165 00:06:56.970 --> 00:07:00.385 were really pushing her to be honest 166 00:07:00.385 --> 00:07:02.347 about how she was feeling and to try 167 00:07:02.347 --> 00:07:06.431 and come to less of a juggling act 168 00:07:06.431 --> 00:07:09.558 of all these things and my impression 169 00:07:09.558 --> 00:07:12.355 is perhaps that, that conflict in her 170 00:07:12.355 --> 00:07:14.317 of whether to go back to the family 171 00:07:14.317 --> 00:07:17.615 and be a mother and a wife in that family 172 00:07:17.615 --> 00:07:20.078 or to be an independent person 173 00:07:20.078 --> 00:07:21.231 which would mean that she would 174 00:07:21.231 --> 00:07:22.713 put that family aside. 175 00:07:22.713 --> 00:07:24.377 That conflict was coming up. 176 00:07:24.377 --> 00:07:26.489 - [Minuchin] And when would you present 177 00:07:26.489 --> 00:07:31.089 these things and I see them with 178 00:07:31.089 --> 00:07:32.582 a different perspective. 179 00:07:32.582 --> 00:07:33.407 - [Woman] Okay. 180 00:07:33.407 --> 00:07:37.269 - See, you see the struggle inside of her 181 00:07:37.269 --> 00:07:39.412 and I see the struggle between 182 00:07:39.412 --> 00:07:40.493 these two pages. 183 00:07:40.493 --> 00:07:41.389 - [Woman] That's what I was going 184 00:07:41.389 --> 00:07:44.052 to point out is I was thinking that. 185 00:07:44.194 --> 00:07:46.690 - Maybe what I am asking is, 186 00:07:47.871 --> 00:07:51.846 what I am asking is, (mumbles) 187 00:07:55.681 --> 00:08:00.641 are you working in your position? 188 00:08:00.641 --> 00:08:01.954 - [Woman] I believe that we were. 189 00:08:01.954 --> 00:08:04.215 I believe that ultimately we were 190 00:08:04.215 --> 00:08:07.620 and that that's where the conflict arose 191 00:08:07.620 --> 00:08:09.676 although we didn't realize that it was 192 00:08:09.676 --> 00:08:11.681 happening at the level that Marci 193 00:08:11.681 --> 00:08:13.782 was feeling it. 194 00:08:13.782 --> 00:08:16.140 Is that Variety House is saying, 195 00:08:16.140 --> 00:08:17.580 let's get these roots together, 196 00:08:17.580 --> 00:08:18.838 meet you with your family 197 00:08:18.838 --> 00:08:21.282 and ultimately have you return 198 00:08:21.282 --> 00:08:22.338 to your home and be a mother 199 00:08:22.338 --> 00:08:25.473 to your children and on the project 200 00:08:25.473 --> 00:08:28.855 return end, Marci's really grappling 201 00:08:28.855 --> 00:08:31.395 with that as something that she 202 00:08:31.395 --> 00:08:33.784 possibly really doesn't want to do. 203 00:08:33.784 --> 00:08:35.459 - [Voiceover] So from the perspective 204 00:08:35.459 --> 00:08:37.445 of the drug treatment staff, 205 00:08:37.445 --> 00:08:39.919 individual integrity has precedence 206 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.903 over and is frequently in conflict with, 207 00:08:42.903 --> 00:08:45.357 being a relationship. 208 00:08:45.427 --> 00:08:46.952 This outlook placed the drug treatment 209 00:08:46.952 --> 00:08:49.053 program at odds with the foster 210 00:08:49.053 --> 00:08:51.912 care agency which assigns priority 211 00:08:51.912 --> 00:08:54.314 to being a relationship. 212 00:08:54.314 --> 00:08:55.732 The need to accommodate to these 213 00:08:55.732 --> 00:08:59.295 different perspectives stressed Marci. 214 00:08:59.295 --> 00:09:02.857 - She initially was to go to Variety House 215 00:09:02.857 --> 00:09:05.108 to have her visits with her children. 216 00:09:05.108 --> 00:09:07.317 However, when she went to Variety House 217 00:09:07.317 --> 00:09:10.708 for the first visit, she had this very 218 00:09:10.708 --> 00:09:13.396 emotional reaction whereby when was 219 00:09:13.396 --> 00:09:15.412 just in a terrible panic and hysterically 220 00:09:15.412 --> 00:09:17.556 crying and I spoke to her on the phone 221 00:09:17.556 --> 00:09:19.412 and tried to get her to come back 222 00:09:19.412 --> 00:09:20.937 and ultimately she said she would only 223 00:09:20.937 --> 00:09:23.252 come back if Wilfredo told her 224 00:09:23.252 --> 00:09:25.514 she should go back which he did 225 00:09:25.514 --> 00:09:28.589 and she decided to come back. 226 00:09:28.589 --> 00:09:30.349 - We were supposed to have a meeting 227 00:09:30.349 --> 00:09:32.695 at our place and Marci got very emotional, 228 00:09:32.695 --> 00:09:33.912 she started crying, she didn't want 229 00:09:33.912 --> 00:09:35.311 to go back to the program. 230 00:09:35.311 --> 00:09:40.311 It was quite a strong, emotional reaction. 231 00:09:40.474 --> 00:09:41.391 She did not want to go back. 232 00:09:41.391 --> 00:09:42.458 She did not care if she couldn't see 233 00:09:42.458 --> 00:09:43.119 her kids again, 234 00:09:43.119 --> 00:09:44.698 she didn't care about anything. 235 00:09:44.698 --> 00:09:45.818 But she did go back. 236 00:09:45.818 --> 00:09:48.377 She claims she went back for Wilfredo, 237 00:09:48.377 --> 00:09:50.297 the man, the father. 238 00:09:50.297 --> 00:09:53.913 - [Minuchin] You would say as she 239 00:09:53.913 --> 00:09:58.913 left your place, is that because she 240 00:10:00.401 --> 00:10:05.401 is pulled by things out of your place 241 00:10:07.153 --> 00:10:11.370 or is that she was rejecting your place? 242 00:10:11.814 --> 00:10:13.958 - I think she was really rejecting it. 243 00:10:13.958 --> 00:10:16.733 What I seen is that whole battle, 244 00:10:16.733 --> 00:10:18.728 I think she was doing a lot better 245 00:10:18.728 --> 00:10:20.929 than she gave herself credit for 246 00:10:20.929 --> 00:10:23.148 and I think that scared her. 247 00:10:23.148 --> 00:10:24.524 - [Voiceover] Within the drug program's 248 00:10:24.524 --> 00:10:27.585 individual prospective, Marci's eventual 249 00:10:27.585 --> 00:10:29.868 dropping out of the program is to be 250 00:10:29.868 --> 00:10:33.025 attributed to her individual pathology. 251 00:10:33.025 --> 00:10:36.305 Her internal ambivalence and conflict. 252 00:10:36.305 --> 00:10:38.768 Doctor Minuchin systemic prospective 253 00:10:38.768 --> 00:10:42.288 provides an alternative explanation. 254 00:10:42.288 --> 00:10:46.629 - [Minuchin] You see I think that I am 255 00:10:46.629 --> 00:10:51.629 exploring the collaboration 256 00:10:52.862 --> 00:10:57.862 of the two places and the synergy 257 00:10:58.323 --> 00:11:03.323 or opposition of the forces because 258 00:11:03.337 --> 00:11:08.337 you are working in terms of increasing 259 00:11:08.883 --> 00:11:13.883 her confidence and participant 260 00:11:14.058 --> 00:11:16.938 in this world that is the world 261 00:11:16.938 --> 00:11:20.042 of the foster parent to children 262 00:11:20.042 --> 00:11:25.042 and her boyfriend and your working 263 00:11:26.115 --> 00:11:29.496 in terms of increasing her sense 264 00:11:29.496 --> 00:11:33.783 of confidence and her ability to survive. 265 00:11:33.783 --> 00:11:35.394 - [Voiceover] The individual prospective 266 00:11:35.394 --> 00:11:37.976 shared by the drug treatment staff 267 00:11:37.976 --> 00:11:39.919 is the prevailing prospective among 268 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:42.103 the institutions and agencies 269 00:11:42.103 --> 00:11:45.928 that deliver services to poor families. 270 00:11:45.977 --> 00:11:47.438 It is this perspective that leads 271 00:11:47.438 --> 00:11:50.243 these agencies to refer individual 272 00:11:50.243 --> 00:11:52.664 family members to a new helper 273 00:11:52.664 --> 00:11:55.994 every time a new problem is defined. 274 00:11:56.043 --> 00:11:57.505 And it is this perspective 275 00:11:57.505 --> 00:11:59.863 that frequently leads the multiple helpers 276 00:11:59.863 --> 00:12:01.719 to make a multitude of competing 277 00:12:01.719 --> 00:12:04.444 demands on poor families. 278 00:12:06.359 --> 00:12:07.650 - I was just thinking, when you were 279 00:12:07.650 --> 00:12:10.266 talking about this, that the conflict (mumbles) 280 00:12:10.266 --> 00:12:12.367 even further between us 281 00:12:12.367 --> 00:12:15.205 and Variety House, it goes between 282 00:12:15.205 --> 00:12:17.626 the couple themselves and also 283 00:12:17.626 --> 00:12:19.140 between the foster family 284 00:12:19.140 --> 00:12:21.487 and (mumbles) family because 285 00:12:21.487 --> 00:12:22.468 it seems like if you're saying 286 00:12:22.468 --> 00:12:23.706 the foster is doing so well 287 00:12:23.706 --> 00:12:25.382 with the children, they may have 288 00:12:25.382 --> 00:12:26.545 a vested interested in wanting 289 00:12:26.545 --> 00:12:28.953 to keep the children there. 290 00:12:29.726 --> 00:12:30.693 - [Minuchin] So you're saying, 291 00:12:30.693 --> 00:12:35.693 it is a serious, it's like a (mumbles)? 292 00:12:36.058 --> 00:12:36.699 - Yes. 293 00:12:36.699 --> 00:12:37.830 - [Minuchin] And everybody is pulling 294 00:12:37.830 --> 00:12:41.352 on Marci and she cracks. 295 00:12:41.352 --> 00:12:42.899 - [Woman] Yeah and she cracks 296 00:12:42.899 --> 00:12:43.997 by returning to-- 297 00:12:43.997 --> 00:12:44.915 - [Minuchin] Are we doing 298 00:12:44.915 --> 00:12:47.912 this family some good? 299 00:12:47.912 --> 00:12:49.680 You have here, 300 00:12:49.680 --> 00:12:53.416 a family that is quite fragmented. 301 00:12:55.121 --> 00:12:58.479 You have, her name is? 302 00:12:58.479 --> 00:13:00.141 - [Woman] Abril - Abril. 303 00:13:00.141 --> 00:13:02.275 - [Minuchin] Abril and Jasmine. 304 00:13:02.275 --> 00:13:03.981 Hello sweetheart. 305 00:13:03.981 --> 00:13:05.634 And she lives with? 306 00:13:05.634 --> 00:13:06.317 - Her. 307 00:13:06.317 --> 00:13:07.181 - [Minuchin] You. 308 00:13:07.181 --> 00:13:10.066 And Jasmine lives with you. 309 00:13:10.066 --> 00:13:14.239 And you were living in the program. 310 00:13:15.297 --> 00:13:17.118 And you were? 311 00:13:17.118 --> 00:13:19.626 - I was living in my own mist. 312 00:13:19.626 --> 00:13:21.409 - [Minuchin] In your own mist. 313 00:13:21.409 --> 00:13:23.105 - On my own, yeah. 314 00:13:23.105 --> 00:13:26.028 - [Minuchin] And she sometimes. 315 00:13:26.028 --> 00:13:27.265 - What do you mean she lives? 316 00:13:27.265 --> 00:13:29.174 - I mean that sometimes you don't 317 00:13:29.174 --> 00:13:30.710 have a permanent address. 318 00:13:30.710 --> 00:13:33.431 - No, see I had a permanent but because 319 00:13:33.431 --> 00:13:36.588 things went the way it went, 320 00:13:36.588 --> 00:13:38.594 I wind up losing it . 321 00:13:38.594 --> 00:13:42.029 Now, according to the way things 322 00:13:42.029 --> 00:13:44.214 supposed to be, I am looking forward 323 00:13:44.214 --> 00:13:47.256 to having my own place again 324 00:13:47.256 --> 00:13:49.401 and being with the family. 325 00:13:49.401 --> 00:13:51.341 In the Lord's name. 326 00:13:51.711 --> 00:13:53.684 The confusion is that she was in 327 00:13:53.684 --> 00:13:57.684 the state of drugs and it put us apart. 328 00:13:57.684 --> 00:14:00.330 Other than not being with the girls, 329 00:14:00.330 --> 00:14:01.546 we do not want that. 330 00:14:01.546 --> 00:14:04.106 We want them to be with us. 331 00:14:04.106 --> 00:14:08.629 I want the family to be once again a family. 332 00:14:08.629 --> 00:14:11.830 Like her, which is the mother 333 00:14:11.830 --> 00:14:14.577 of our daughter. 334 00:14:15.511 --> 00:14:18.630 (mumbles) as it is 335 00:14:18.630 --> 00:14:22.242 that she's with her and she's with her. 336 00:14:22.242 --> 00:14:23.620 To tell you the truth, they're both 337 00:14:23.620 --> 00:14:26.222 supposed to be together not apart. 338 00:14:26.222 --> 00:14:28.261 As bad as it is that we apart. 339 00:14:28.261 --> 00:14:29.818 - [Minuchin] I agree with you. 340 00:14:29.818 --> 00:14:31.119 I agree with you. 341 00:14:31.119 --> 00:14:34.682 I think that it's incorrect. 342 00:14:34.682 --> 00:14:38.543 - See, with that it's just like this. 343 00:14:38.543 --> 00:14:40.838 Because of what Jasmine has 344 00:14:40.838 --> 00:14:41.810 and for the facilities 345 00:14:41.810 --> 00:14:43.389 that Variety House has, 346 00:14:43.389 --> 00:14:44.475 that's why she's there. 347 00:14:44.475 --> 00:14:45.650 - [Minuchin] And it was necessary. 348 00:14:45.650 --> 00:14:47.495 - And the way I feel, I feel like this. 349 00:14:47.495 --> 00:14:50.407 Okay, they're not together, granted, 350 00:14:50.407 --> 00:14:53.436 but she's with Chris, I trust Chris. 351 00:14:53.436 --> 00:14:55.090 The things that I have been through 352 00:14:55.090 --> 00:14:56.615 with foster mothers, with me being 353 00:14:56.615 --> 00:14:58.428 an adopted child. 354 00:14:58.428 --> 00:14:59.870 - [Minuchin] You have been adopted child? 355 00:14:59.870 --> 00:15:01.363 - Yes. 356 00:15:01.363 --> 00:15:04.468 And with that situation, 357 00:15:04.468 --> 00:15:07.690 there's a part of me that's very skeptical 358 00:15:07.690 --> 00:15:11.875 about them being there but as of them 359 00:15:11.875 --> 00:15:14.515 being with her, she has my trust 360 00:15:14.515 --> 00:15:17.235 and Jasmine's happy with Mary. 361 00:15:17.235 --> 00:15:20.979 - [Minuchin] And that means you know 362 00:15:20.979 --> 00:15:24.019 very well they're not with some other? 363 00:15:24.019 --> 00:15:25.096 - Excuse me. 364 00:15:25.096 --> 00:15:26.995 It's not saying that we would actually 365 00:15:26.995 --> 00:15:30.461 say, okay they can live with them for good 366 00:15:30.461 --> 00:15:32.568 because we didn't 367 00:15:32.568 --> 00:15:34.521 create them for nothing. 368 00:15:34.521 --> 00:15:37.103 - [Minuchin] I just want to say something 369 00:15:37.103 --> 00:15:40.068 so that you will know from where I come? 370 00:15:40.068 --> 00:15:41.049 - Oh good, (mumbles) 371 00:15:41.049 --> 00:15:42.650 - John, John. 372 00:15:42.650 --> 00:15:43.962 - [Minuchin] I want you to know 373 00:15:43.962 --> 00:15:46.362 from where I come. 374 00:15:46.362 --> 00:15:50.104 I come from a position in which 375 00:15:50.104 --> 00:15:53.905 I am trying understand. 376 00:15:55.726 --> 00:15:59.470 And I'm trying to see if we can make 377 00:15:59.470 --> 00:16:02.073 some sense that this happened for. 378 00:16:02.073 --> 00:16:05.753 And I'm not an authoritive. 379 00:16:05.753 --> 00:16:08.230 I'm not judicial. 380 00:16:08.230 --> 00:16:10.387 I'm not with Department of Welfare. 381 00:16:10.387 --> 00:16:12.290 I'm with nobody. 382 00:16:12.290 --> 00:16:15.318 I'm really, in some way, with the people 383 00:16:15.318 --> 00:16:18.732 behind the one way mirror trying to see 384 00:16:18.732 --> 00:16:21.402 can we think clearer? 385 00:16:21.402 --> 00:16:24.144 That's all, so my point. 386 00:16:24.144 --> 00:16:24.998 - Wait. 387 00:16:24.998 --> 00:16:29.998 - No, no I am (mumbles) myself 388 00:16:30.182 --> 00:16:33.842 because maybe my question sounded 389 00:16:33.842 --> 00:16:36.851 like aggressive or controlling. 390 00:16:36.851 --> 00:16:39.265 If it was, I apologize. 391 00:16:39.265 --> 00:16:42.710 - See to me it's, I'm going to say 392 00:16:42.710 --> 00:16:43.723 because it could have 393 00:16:43.723 --> 00:16:45.142 been all ready addressed. 394 00:16:45.142 --> 00:16:46.571 When it comes to my family, 395 00:16:46.571 --> 00:16:49.025 I become very defensive. 396 00:16:49.025 --> 00:16:50.209 I become defensive. 397 00:16:50.209 --> 00:16:51.265 - [Minuchin] Of course, that's why 398 00:16:51.265 --> 00:16:53.046 I'm explaining myself because 399 00:16:53.046 --> 00:16:57.847 I realized that I'm shouting to you 400 00:16:57.847 --> 00:16:59.531 without wanting to. 401 00:16:59.531 --> 00:17:03.124 I didn't want to. It was a question. 402 00:17:03.124 --> 00:17:04.884 It was a question because your family 403 00:17:04.884 --> 00:17:09.884 is so fragmented and so to reunify 404 00:17:10.780 --> 00:17:14.186 a family that has been now what? 405 00:17:14.186 --> 00:17:16.747 Three or four months separate. 406 00:17:16.747 --> 00:17:20.292 - No, we put my children with them 407 00:17:20.292 --> 00:17:23.535 because see, when she was born, 408 00:17:23.535 --> 00:17:24.633 when I was pregnant 409 00:17:24.633 --> 00:17:27.208 and I was getting high. 410 00:17:27.449 --> 00:17:28.335 Okay, so when she was born, 411 00:17:28.335 --> 00:17:29.689 I went into the hospital, 412 00:17:29.689 --> 00:17:31.097 when it was time for me to give birth 413 00:17:31.097 --> 00:17:32.431 and I told them, I said, "I would like 414 00:17:32.431 --> 00:17:34.798 "for her to be in foster care." 415 00:17:34.798 --> 00:17:37.051 Because I knew what I was doing. 416 00:17:37.051 --> 00:17:39.152 And for it not to effect her or for her 417 00:17:39.152 --> 00:17:42.475 to be dragged down with me. 418 00:17:42.609 --> 00:17:44.285 I made that decision. 419 00:17:44.285 --> 00:17:46.503 That decision is eating me up. 420 00:17:46.503 --> 00:17:48.765 I feel terrible because of that. 421 00:17:48.765 --> 00:17:51.570 Because as a relationship and a bond 422 00:17:51.570 --> 00:17:52.669 between a mother and a daughter, 423 00:17:52.669 --> 00:17:55.437 me and her do not have. 424 00:17:55.571 --> 00:17:58.477 Now me and Jasmine have a bond. 425 00:17:58.865 --> 00:17:59.891 But see, I want to have 426 00:17:59.891 --> 00:18:01.722 a bond with her too. 427 00:18:04.398 --> 00:18:09.398 - [Minuchin] Now you just left a week ago. 428 00:18:10.864 --> 00:18:12.295 - Wednesday it'll be a week. 429 00:18:12.295 --> 00:18:12.913 - [Minuchin] What? 430 00:18:12.913 --> 00:18:15.371 - Wednesday it will be a week. 431 00:18:15.469 --> 00:18:17.351 - [Minuchin] And when you left, 432 00:18:17.351 --> 00:18:19.271 did you know that she was-- 433 00:18:19.271 --> 00:18:20.838 - No I did not. 434 00:18:20.838 --> 00:18:23.911 - Until I called because (mumbles) 435 00:18:23.911 --> 00:18:25.777 where I was staying at, 436 00:18:25.777 --> 00:18:29.757 that's supposed to be Abril's God Mother 437 00:18:29.757 --> 00:18:33.906 and everything, don't give me that face. 438 00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:39.043 I was staying there, I found out from them. 439 00:18:39.043 --> 00:18:42.366 I was, wait a minute, let me see if it's true. 440 00:18:42.959 --> 00:18:45.547 Because I even told her I want her 441 00:18:45.547 --> 00:18:48.320 to continue to do what you got to do 442 00:18:48.320 --> 00:18:51.367 to be with us again. 443 00:18:52.035 --> 00:18:53.783 - [Minuchin] Can I ask you Marci 444 00:18:53.783 --> 00:18:58.783 and if I am intrusive or if I am perverted 445 00:19:01.560 --> 00:19:04.472 if you'll just tell me and I'll change okay? 446 00:19:04.472 --> 00:19:07.716 So I want to ask you straight questions 447 00:19:07.716 --> 00:19:12.239 and you tell me butt out, I butt out okay? 448 00:19:17.173 --> 00:19:20.736 - Like now, I'm open to suggestions. 449 00:19:21.392 --> 00:19:23.764 So, go ahead. 450 00:19:24.027 --> 00:19:26.804 - [Minuchin] When you left, 451 00:19:27.194 --> 00:19:30.689 you took that decision on your own. 452 00:19:31.537 --> 00:19:33.479 It was a decision that 453 00:19:33.479 --> 00:19:36.832 you would have disagreed? 454 00:19:36.860 --> 00:19:37.745 - [Woman] I would have 455 00:19:37.745 --> 00:19:40.475 probably encouraged her to stay. 456 00:19:41.321 --> 00:19:43.631 - [Minuchin] You don't think that is-- 457 00:19:43.631 --> 00:19:44.933 - It wasn't the right moment. 458 00:19:44.933 --> 00:19:46.394 - [Minuchin] That was the right moment. 459 00:19:46.394 --> 00:19:47.227 But you thought that was 460 00:19:47.227 --> 00:19:49.156 the right move? 461 00:19:49.156 --> 00:19:50.340 Is that correct? 462 00:19:50.340 --> 00:19:53.448 - Yes and your next question is why? 463 00:19:54.158 --> 00:19:55.204 - [Minuchin] No, no, no, no. 464 00:19:55.204 --> 00:19:57.722 You took that decision and you took 465 00:19:57.722 --> 00:19:59.899 that decision on your own. 466 00:19:59.899 --> 00:20:02.812 You didn't ask him, the children. 467 00:20:02.812 --> 00:20:06.192 Did you talk to Martin about it? 468 00:20:06.192 --> 00:20:08.358 - I seen Martin the day after I came home. 469 00:20:08.358 --> 00:20:08.998 - [Minuchin] Huh? 470 00:20:08.998 --> 00:20:10.271 - The day after I left. 471 00:20:10.271 --> 00:20:11.754 - [Minuchin] You went and told him 472 00:20:11.754 --> 00:20:13.311 that you did it. 473 00:20:13.311 --> 00:20:18.311 And can you share with us your reasons? 474 00:20:19.296 --> 00:20:20.032 - My reasons for leaving? 475 00:20:20.032 --> 00:20:20.639 - [Minuchin] Yeah. 476 00:20:20.639 --> 00:20:24.097 Maybe you are the wiser-- 477 00:20:24.097 --> 00:20:25.452 - He's an undercover right? 478 00:20:25.452 --> 00:20:27.917 - [Minuchin] Maybe you are wiser 479 00:20:27.917 --> 00:20:30.958 in this that you know about yourself 480 00:20:30.958 --> 00:20:33.176 more than anybody else so. 481 00:20:33.176 --> 00:20:33.933 - (mumbles) 482 00:20:33.933 --> 00:20:38.813 (baby jabbers) 483 00:20:39.843 --> 00:20:41.081 - Okay they said keep it simple 484 00:20:41.081 --> 00:20:42.978 so I'll keep my answer simple. 485 00:20:42.978 --> 00:20:43.715 I left because-- 486 00:20:43.715 --> 00:20:45.648 - [Minuchin] You can make it complicated. 487 00:20:45.648 --> 00:20:48.668 - No, no, complicates, I have a habit 488 00:20:48.668 --> 00:20:50.268 of taking people a long for 489 00:20:50.268 --> 00:20:53.137 a very confusing ride. (laughs) 490 00:20:54.685 --> 00:20:58.086 Kate has experienced one of my rides so. 491 00:20:58.209 --> 00:20:59.691 I'm going to keep it simple. 492 00:20:59.691 --> 00:21:04.691 I left because of everything 493 00:21:07.191 --> 00:21:10.247 that what happened up there. 494 00:21:12.674 --> 00:21:15.461 Part of me feels that because 495 00:21:15.461 --> 00:21:17.508 if I had stayed in there, 496 00:21:17.508 --> 00:21:19.984 I'd a learned that I could live without him. 497 00:21:19.984 --> 00:21:24.421 That I could learn to just be my own person 498 00:21:24.421 --> 00:21:27.247 and to take care of me but I'm not 499 00:21:27.247 --> 00:21:29.609 one of my concerns. 500 00:21:30.266 --> 00:21:32.144 My concerns is towards him 501 00:21:32.144 --> 00:21:35.554 and towards my children and being there 502 00:21:35.554 --> 00:21:38.250 it was head on dealing with me. 503 00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:39.183 - [Minuchin] That's beautiful. 504 00:21:39.183 --> 00:21:41.061 - And, you told me to finish, 505 00:21:41.061 --> 00:21:42.792 let me finish. 506 00:21:42.792 --> 00:21:45.016 - [Minuchin] I can say it's beautiful. 507 00:21:45.693 --> 00:21:46.730 - (Woman] He's giving you a compliment. 508 00:21:46.730 --> 00:21:49.374 - You know that's hard for me. - [Woman] I know it's hard. 509 00:21:49.374 --> 00:21:51.711 - Thank you. Let's see. 510 00:21:51.711 --> 00:21:54.633 Another thing for leaving is because 511 00:21:54.633 --> 00:21:59.049 a lot of issues in my life. 512 00:21:59.049 --> 00:22:02.413 I dealt with them that it happened, it happened. 513 00:22:03.250 --> 00:22:06.568 And I was kind of not so much 514 00:22:06.568 --> 00:22:08.883 dealing with it but excepting it. 515 00:22:08.883 --> 00:22:10.344 And up there, it was opening up 516 00:22:10.344 --> 00:22:12.051 a lot of things and a lot of pain 517 00:22:12.051 --> 00:22:14.007 and a lot of anger. 518 00:22:14.342 --> 00:22:16.114 And it came to a point that up there, 519 00:22:16.114 --> 00:22:17.980 I couldn't see my father because 520 00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:19.217 of the things that happened between 521 00:22:19.217 --> 00:22:20.957 me and him and of the conversations 522 00:22:20.957 --> 00:22:22.993 that we had. 523 00:22:22.993 --> 00:22:24.884 So they said that I couldn't see him. 524 00:22:24.884 --> 00:22:26.260 And through the things that have 525 00:22:26.260 --> 00:22:28.681 happened between me and him, 526 00:22:28.681 --> 00:22:29.716 sooner or later that would have 527 00:22:29.716 --> 00:22:31.606 popped up too. 528 00:22:31.606 --> 00:22:36.606 So I felt, not fully out of balance 529 00:22:37.023 --> 00:22:39.445 without my father because I'm used to 530 00:22:39.445 --> 00:22:43.820 my old man, him and my father in my life 531 00:22:43.820 --> 00:22:47.181 and I lost one of my legs there. 532 00:22:47.181 --> 00:22:49.756 And I'm not used to that. 533 00:22:50.082 --> 00:22:51.085 - [Voiceover] Marci finds herself 534 00:22:51.085 --> 00:22:53.005 and her connections with others 535 00:22:53.005 --> 00:22:56.689 as difficult as those connections might be. 536 00:22:56.844 --> 00:22:58.829 As a result, she experienced the drug 537 00:22:58.829 --> 00:23:01.529 treatment program's individual focus 538 00:23:01.529 --> 00:23:04.315 as foreign and toxic. 539 00:23:04.363 --> 00:23:05.942 Her departure from the program 540 00:23:05.942 --> 00:23:09.349 was an act of self affirmation. 541 00:23:16.625 --> 00:23:19.553 - [Marci] Give mommy the ring. Thank you. 542 00:23:21.361 --> 00:23:25.564 - Wilfredo, in just talking with Marci 543 00:23:25.564 --> 00:23:29.949 but I really want to include you into it. 544 00:23:29.949 --> 00:23:32.716 In my way of thinking, 545 00:23:33.449 --> 00:23:38.449 to be part of a family is a very 546 00:23:38.912 --> 00:23:43.573 important feeling to feel competent 547 00:23:43.573 --> 00:23:45.654 and not to feel depressed 548 00:23:45.654 --> 00:23:47.915 and not to need drugs. 549 00:23:47.915 --> 00:23:51.194 - [Minuchin] I think that you say, 550 00:23:51.194 --> 00:23:53.375 I think very strongly 551 00:23:53.375 --> 00:23:57.141 that programs that take you away 552 00:23:57.146 --> 00:24:02.146 from your family may not be as selfish 553 00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:05.031 as other people think. 554 00:24:05.031 --> 00:24:07.474 That's my opinion. It's a private opinion. 555 00:24:07.474 --> 00:24:10.014 - Pardon me, I know how to (mumbles). 556 00:24:10.158 --> 00:24:11.417 She thinks how she feels because 557 00:24:11.417 --> 00:24:16.206 I've tooken care of her and partly I put it, 558 00:24:16.206 --> 00:24:19.119 it's like taking care of him. 559 00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:21.665 I have to deal with the moodiness. 560 00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:23.252 - [Minuchin] You are a caretaker. 561 00:24:23.373 --> 00:24:23.801 - Hmm? 562 00:24:23.801 --> 00:24:25.519 - [Minuchin] You are a caretaker. 563 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:27.514 - They think they're my responsibility. 564 00:24:27.514 --> 00:24:30.177 - [Minuchin] Yes, all three of them. 565 00:24:30.177 --> 00:24:32.208 - Yeah. 566 00:24:33.195 --> 00:24:35.557 - [Minuchin] You are a strong woman. 567 00:24:36.107 --> 00:24:39.117 - I don't see strong, I just see (mumbles) 568 00:24:39.117 --> 00:24:40.394 - [Minuchin] You are a strong woman. 569 00:24:40.394 --> 00:24:41.610 - I just endure because 570 00:24:41.610 --> 00:24:45.472 everyone's relationship is not something 571 00:24:45.472 --> 00:24:48.546 that we sat fully and talk about. 572 00:24:48.546 --> 00:24:50.170 It was a relationship we jumped into 573 00:24:50.170 --> 00:24:52.111 and throughout this relationship 574 00:24:52.111 --> 00:24:55.151 of four years, we got two children. 575 00:24:55.151 --> 00:24:58.444 So it's not only me and him anymore, it's us. 576 00:24:58.653 --> 00:25:02.890 So I have to take care and protect them. 577 00:25:02.890 --> 00:25:04.391 - [Minuchin] And is it sometimes heavy? 578 00:25:04.391 --> 00:25:05.405 - Hmm? 579 00:25:05.405 --> 00:25:07.924 - Is it sometimes very heavy? 580 00:25:07.924 --> 00:25:10.186 - Very hairy? Hectic? 581 00:25:10.186 --> 00:25:12.736 - Heavy yeah heavy. 582 00:25:12.736 --> 00:25:14.155 - See, that's we he mean by deep right? 583 00:25:14.155 --> 00:25:15.584 - [Woman] Put a load on you. 584 00:25:15.584 --> 00:25:17.919 - [Minuchin] This feeling that you 585 00:25:17.919 --> 00:25:21.763 need to take care of all these people. 586 00:25:21.876 --> 00:25:23.059 - No, because I've tooken care 587 00:25:23.059 --> 00:25:25.779 of my four brothers, my father, 588 00:25:25.779 --> 00:25:27.908 I've tooken care of them. 589 00:25:28.511 --> 00:25:31.338 And just with them, this is just my family 590 00:25:31.338 --> 00:25:33.789 I have to take care of now. 591 00:25:33.789 --> 00:25:35.826 - You know something? 592 00:25:35.826 --> 00:25:40.826 As I hear Marci, I hear a caretaker. 593 00:25:43.541 --> 00:25:44.577 She's a caretaker. 594 00:25:44.577 --> 00:25:48.363 She has been a caretaker all her life. 595 00:25:48.363 --> 00:25:50.714 - You want some? 596 00:25:54.859 --> 00:25:59.859 - [Minuchin] Say hello candid camera. 597 00:26:01.210 --> 00:26:06.210 You can not unemployed a caretaker. 598 00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:10.919 - You can not unemploy. 599 00:26:10.919 --> 00:26:11.915 You can not have a caretaker 600 00:26:11.915 --> 00:26:14.042 that doesn't have a job. 601 00:26:14.042 --> 00:26:15.226 There's always somebody there 602 00:26:15.226 --> 00:26:16.549 for them to take care of. 603 00:26:16.549 --> 00:26:20.636 - And Marci is an unemployed caretaker. 604 00:26:20.636 --> 00:26:20.935 - [Marcy] How am I 605 00:26:20.935 --> 00:26:22.590 I an unemployed caretaker? 606 00:26:22.590 --> 00:26:23.731 Oh because I don't have my kids 607 00:26:23.731 --> 00:26:25.257 with me right now. 608 00:26:25.257 --> 00:26:26.459 - [Minuchin] When a caretaker 609 00:26:26.459 --> 00:26:31.017 is unemployed, it gets very depressed. 610 00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:36.596 It gets a sense of worthlessness. 611 00:26:39.642 --> 00:26:43.822 If she has decided that she can not 612 00:26:43.822 --> 00:26:48.822 be in your place and don't do her job. 613 00:26:50.557 --> 00:26:54.957 Her job is to take care. 614 00:26:54.957 --> 00:26:59.261 You in your place, you said to her, 615 00:26:59.261 --> 00:27:03.591 caretaker, take care of yourself-- 616 00:27:03.591 --> 00:27:05.468 - First. 617 00:27:05.468 --> 00:27:06.891 - First. 618 00:27:06.891 --> 00:27:08.609 And it came a point in which 619 00:27:08.609 --> 00:27:10.966 she disagreed with you. 620 00:27:10.966 --> 00:27:12.235 - [Marci] There came a point 621 00:27:12.235 --> 00:27:13.421 and it was something that 622 00:27:13.421 --> 00:27:14.924 I fully disagreed with. 623 00:27:14.924 --> 00:27:18.484 It's okay for a person to feel 624 00:27:18.484 --> 00:27:20.339 that they work to take care of, 625 00:27:20.339 --> 00:27:21.561 that it's okay for them to take care 626 00:27:21.561 --> 00:27:22.927 of themselves, that they got 627 00:27:22.927 --> 00:27:25.454 that selflessness about them, 628 00:27:25.454 --> 00:27:27.226 then that program is for them 629 00:27:27.226 --> 00:27:28.314 but it's not for me because 630 00:27:28.314 --> 00:27:30.858 I can not. 631 00:27:32.913 --> 00:27:34.296 - I think like you. 632 00:27:34.296 --> 00:27:35.011 - Why? 633 00:27:35.011 --> 00:27:39.336 - I think like you. I think like you. 634 00:27:39.940 --> 00:27:42.662 And I (mumbles) you. 635 00:27:42.755 --> 00:27:45.894 - Not me because it was to the point 636 00:27:45.894 --> 00:27:48.774 it's something that was drilling 637 00:27:48.774 --> 00:27:50.757 into my head for me to put it to me. 638 00:27:50.757 --> 00:27:52.463 I don't feel like it's for me right now. 639 00:27:52.463 --> 00:27:55.067 - [Minuchin] (mumbles) now Marci. 640 00:27:55.067 --> 00:27:56.773 How can you-- 641 00:27:56.773 --> 00:28:00.328 - Where are you going? Mamma. 642 00:28:00.328 --> 00:28:02.999 - Excuse me, it ain't check out time yet. 643 00:28:03.347 --> 00:28:04.467 - [Minuchin] The question is, 644 00:28:04.467 --> 00:28:09.467 how can you make these things 645 00:28:09.908 --> 00:28:13.572 that you want happen? Really happen. 646 00:28:13.572 --> 00:28:18.572 How can you have a life in which 647 00:28:19.452 --> 00:28:22.843 you can take care of them 648 00:28:22.843 --> 00:28:24.347 and of yourself also because 649 00:28:24.347 --> 00:28:26.255 when she's a caretaker, 650 00:28:26.255 --> 00:28:28.815 she's also taking care of herself. 651 00:28:28.815 --> 00:28:30.340 There is something about the job 652 00:28:30.340 --> 00:28:32.562 of caretaking that is 653 00:28:32.562 --> 00:28:37.562 And so this is important (mumbles) 654 00:28:42.179 --> 00:28:44.477 should help her but sometimes 655 00:28:44.477 --> 00:28:47.010 that becomes too heavy and then 656 00:28:47.010 --> 00:28:48.546 she goes to drugs. 657 00:28:48.546 --> 00:28:51.014 She want avoid that. 658 00:28:51.052 --> 00:28:53.569 He wants avoid that. 659 00:28:54.668 --> 00:28:58.269 How can you use the helpers now 660 00:28:58.269 --> 00:29:02.158 and life becomes easier for you Martin. 661 00:29:02.158 --> 00:29:06.658 It's also for you Mary and it's also for you. 662 00:29:07.692 --> 00:29:12.692 How can these people (mumbles) 663 00:29:13.995 --> 00:29:16.607 outside of an institution and drug free? 664 00:29:21.702 --> 00:29:26.702 It starts with her wish but she needs help. 665 00:29:28.818 --> 00:29:32.167 Is that what you want to work with her. 666 00:29:32.167 --> 00:29:33.746 - Yeah. 667 00:29:33.746 --> 00:29:35.164 - [Minuchin] You want to work because 668 00:29:35.164 --> 00:29:36.970 she need connections. 669 00:29:36.970 --> 00:29:39.900 If she doesn't fill the connections 670 00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:41.975 with her children, if she doesn't have 671 00:29:41.975 --> 00:29:43.971 the connection with her (mumbles), 672 00:29:43.971 --> 00:29:47.808 then she is taking care of. 673 00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:49.799 she will be the first 674 00:29:49.799 --> 00:29:52.913 and she will go to drugs. 675 00:29:54.873 --> 00:29:59.873 So you need to use the foster parents 676 00:30:01.543 --> 00:30:05.064 to help her to have the sense 677 00:30:05.064 --> 00:30:07.437 that she's having now. 678 00:30:07.753 --> 00:30:12.168 That Jasmine and her are connected. 679 00:30:12.168 --> 00:30:15.001 - Give me a kiss. 680 00:30:20.202 --> 00:30:22.711 - [Minuchin] And Abril and her 681 00:30:22.711 --> 00:30:24.600 begin to be connected, 682 00:30:24.600 --> 00:30:27.164 they are not connected yet. 683 00:30:27.734 --> 00:30:30.134 They are not connected yet. 684 00:30:30.134 --> 00:30:35.134 You need to help that connection. 685 00:30:36.886 --> 00:30:41.200 It may be too difficult for you, I don't know. 686 00:30:41.547 --> 00:30:44.714 Because you are very connected with her. 687 00:30:44.714 --> 00:30:46.472 I know that. 688 00:30:47.736 --> 00:30:51.268 So would it be very difficult for you 689 00:30:51.268 --> 00:30:53.999 to help Marci to connect 690 00:30:53.999 --> 00:30:56.627 with her daughter? 691 00:30:57.033 --> 00:30:57.283 - [Woman] Difficult? 692 00:30:57.283 --> 00:30:58.958 - Yes. Yes. 693 00:30:58.958 --> 00:31:02.280 Because you love her. 694 00:31:02.800 --> 00:31:03.950 - Yeah but I understand that being 695 00:31:03.950 --> 00:31:04.778 a foster mother. 696 00:31:04.778 --> 00:31:06.678 I love her just like I do if she 697 00:31:06.678 --> 00:31:09.260 were one of mine but still, 698 00:31:09.260 --> 00:31:11.233 I'm not her real mother. 699 00:31:11.233 --> 00:31:12.875 - [Minuchin] But it's very difficult? 700 00:31:12.875 --> 00:31:14.588 - Yes it is. 701 00:31:14.588 --> 00:31:16.504 Because I'll have a child leave me. 702 00:31:16.504 --> 00:31:16.754 - [Minuchin] Yeah. 703 00:31:16.754 --> 00:31:17.917 - Very hard. 704 00:31:17.917 --> 00:31:21.074 - [Minuchin] Very, very hard. 705 00:31:21.074 --> 00:31:24.359 I think I will stop because I don't 706 00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:27.699 have anything more to say except 707 00:31:27.699 --> 00:31:30.547 that I agree with you. 708 00:31:30.547 --> 00:31:32.788 Oh, I agree with you. 709 00:31:32.788 --> 00:31:33.919 - [Marci] About what? 710 00:31:33.919 --> 00:31:36.374 - I agree with you about you need 711 00:31:36.374 --> 00:31:39.053 to be connected. 712 00:31:39.053 --> 00:31:41.856 And that this is essential in your life. 713 00:31:41.856 --> 00:31:43.468 - It is. 714 00:31:43.468 --> 00:31:47.806 Because certain times that I have 715 00:31:47.806 --> 00:31:51.391 to talk to him or I even have time 716 00:31:51.391 --> 00:31:52.287 to talk with him, 717 00:31:52.287 --> 00:31:56.878 it felt like something was missing. 718 00:31:56.878 --> 00:31:59.502 Being there and been outside, 719 00:31:59.502 --> 00:32:01.763 there was no balance for me there. 720 00:32:01.763 --> 00:32:02.542 - [Minuchin] Tell me something. 721 00:32:02.542 --> 00:32:03.822 Where are you staying now? 722 00:32:03.822 --> 00:32:04.525 - Me? 723 00:32:04.525 --> 00:32:06.617 I'm going to go stay at a man's house. 724 00:32:06.617 --> 00:32:07.481 - [Minuchin] And? 725 00:32:07.481 --> 00:32:08.665 - A man's house. 726 00:32:08.665 --> 00:32:09.518 - [Minuchin] What's that? 727 00:32:09.518 --> 00:32:12.504 - That's the outpatient program. 728 00:32:12.504 --> 00:32:13.368 We've talked about it. 729 00:32:13.368 --> 00:32:14.265 It's like a program. 730 00:32:14.265 --> 00:32:16.112 - And I'm going to go stay there. 731 00:32:16.112 --> 00:32:20.186 - [Minuchin] And they give you shelter? 732 00:32:20.186 --> 00:32:25.186 - They give me something but I have time 733 00:32:25.277 --> 00:32:27.272 from let's see. 734 00:32:27.272 --> 00:32:28.380 From a certain amount of time 735 00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:30.469 in the morning to certain amount 736 00:32:30.469 --> 00:32:31.469 of time in the night, 737 00:32:31.469 --> 00:32:32.912 I have that time up until to take care 738 00:32:32.912 --> 00:32:34.527 of my outside business which is my 739 00:32:34.527 --> 00:32:35.841 outside businesses. 740 00:32:35.841 --> 00:32:40.450 - [Minuchin] Maybe you are much smarter 741 00:32:40.450 --> 00:32:42.572 then the rest of us. 742 00:32:42.572 --> 00:32:44.151 - No, if that's the case this would 743 00:32:44.151 --> 00:32:46.396 be my office. (laughs) 744 00:32:46.828 --> 00:32:50.604 - [Minuchin] Maybe you're finding 745 00:32:50.604 --> 00:32:54.979 a place you need. 746 00:32:54.979 --> 00:32:57.973 Maybe she'll find now, a place that 747 00:32:57.973 --> 00:33:01.205 is more appropriate for her-- 748 00:33:01.205 --> 00:33:01.682 - I agree. 749 00:33:01.682 --> 00:33:03.285 - [Minuchin] Than your place. 750 00:33:03.285 --> 00:33:03.933 - [Voiceover] An individual perspective 751 00:33:03.933 --> 00:33:06.759 on how to help poor families leads 752 00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:08.978 to the proliferation of helpers 753 00:33:08.978 --> 00:33:10.961 and with alarming frequency 754 00:33:10.961 --> 00:33:13.821 to the fragmentation of families. 755 00:33:13.821 --> 00:33:16.734 A systemic perspective which recognizes 756 00:33:16.734 --> 00:33:18.217 and values the connection 757 00:33:18.217 --> 00:33:20.736 between people as a healing resource 758 00:33:20.736 --> 00:33:23.702 provides an alternative that unfortunately, 759 00:33:23.702 --> 00:33:27.979 remains largely unexplored. 760 00:33:27.979 --> 00:33:29.979 (lively piano music)