WEBVTT

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- Good evening and thank you.

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Thank you for your patience.

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My name is Joanne Corbin and I am on

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the resident faculty here
at Smith College School

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for Social Work, and it is my honor

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to introduce the Lydia
Rapoport visiting professor

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and tonight's lecturer Doctor
Maria Yellow Horse Braveheart.

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Doctor Braveheart is an
associate professor of psychiatry

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and director of the Native
American and Disparities Research

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at the University of New
Mexico, Department of Psychiatry

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and Behavioral Sciences, division of

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Community Behavioral Health.

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She is also a senior fellow and executive

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committee member with
the New Mexico Center

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for the Advancement of
Research Engagement and Science

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on Health Disparities and she is a faculty

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senior fellow with the Robert
Wood Johnson Foundation

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Center for Health Policy at
the University of New Mexico.

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As the Lydia Rapoport visiting professor,

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Doctor Braveheart has met
with School for Social Work

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faculty this week, she has
met with the masters students

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and delivered a topic on
racialized trauma and self care

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and she's also lectured in the
sociocultural classes today.

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We have a tremendous
opportunity tonight to hear

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Doctor Braveheart's
groundbreaking work on culturally

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informed behavioral health interventions.

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An aim of her research and
practice has been to reduce

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the emotional suffering
among Native Americans

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and Alaska Native populations
through the development

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of culturally responsive
interventions driven

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by the community.

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She's starts from a
position of creating space

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to acknowledge and listen
to population's experiences

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of historical trauma,
and to gain knowledge

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about additional knowledge
on these experiences

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and conceptualizations of trauma,

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and she integrates culturally syntonic

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approaches to reducing the psychological,

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physiological, and spiritual
effects of historical traumas.

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She uses a mixture of quantitative
and qualitative research

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methodologies to examine these issues.

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She is currently primary investigator on

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two federal grants, one on
historical trauma practice

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and group interpersonal psychotherapy

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for American Indians through the

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National Institute of Mental Health

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and also the Mescalero
Tribe Preventive and Early

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Mental Health Intervention through the

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National Institute of Minority Health and

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Health Disparities.

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Doctor Braveheart has been
a principal investigator

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or co-investigator on over
24 grants and contracts,

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including SAMHSA, the
National Institute on

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Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism
and various foundations.

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Her educational history is that she has a

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Bachelor of Science from Tuss
University in psychology,

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a Masters of Science from
Columbia University School

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of Social Work, and
direct clinical practice

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and a PhD from Smith College
School for Social Work.

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She has written numerous
articles and book chapters

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on this topic and delivered
hundreds of lectures

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and presentations.

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Her presentation tonight is

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historical trauma and unresolved grief,

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implications for clinical
research and practice

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with American Indians and Alaska Natives.

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Please join me in welcoming
Doctor Braveheart.

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(audience claps)

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- (speaks in foreign
language) my relatives

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and it's good to be here,
I've already been introduced

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and (speaks in foreign language)
Lakota and I say that I

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live on United Airlines planes...

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(audience laughs)

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A lot 'cause I've done
quite a bit of travel.

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So apologies for the, we
couldn't get the volume to work

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on, there's a kind of a video clip that's

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embedded in the Powerpoint
presentation and

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we did get here early, it just
didn't cooperate with us so

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we just sort of go with the flow and

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so I wanted to dedicate
this presentation to

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(speaks in foreign language)
Lala's a short name for

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grandfather in Lakota so, to the Sundance

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(speaks in foreign language),
our extended Sundance family

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and the also (speaks in foreign language)

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Sundance family (speaks
in foreign language)

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and the Sitting Bull and
Big Foot Memorial riders

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and so we'll say a little
bit more about that

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but just want to acknowledge them and

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thank them for all their
love, support, prayers,

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encouragement so that we can do this and

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so that our future generations can live.

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And I'll say more about what takini is

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and what takini means
so I'm gonna introduce

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some this through several
kind of introductory slides

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that I often share and
the first one is from

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a traditional (speaks in foreign language)

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Elders Council that was
part of the preparation

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for the Sitting Bull and
Big Foot Memorial Ride.

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In 1990 there were four
years or preparation prior to

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that and then the fifth
year was the actual ride so

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this was to heal from
the 1890 assassination of

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Sitting Bull and the Wounded Knee Massacre

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in December 1890.

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And so this is very eloquent
and describes what we mean

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when we talk about historical trauma and

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unresolved grief and
it said, "it's our way

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to mourn for one year
momentum for our relations

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enters the spirit world,
tradition is to wear black while

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mourning our lost one,
tradition is to not be happy,

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not to sing and dance
and enjoy life's beauty

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during morning time.

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Tradition is to suffer
with the remembering

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of our lost one and to give away much of

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what we own and to cut our hair short.

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The Chief Sitting Bull
was more than a relation.

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He represented an entire people.

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Our freedom, our way of
life, all that we were

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and for 100 years we as a people have

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mourned our great leader.

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We have followed
tradition in our mourning,

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we have not been happy, have not enjoyed

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life's beauty, have not danced or sung

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as a proud nation.

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We have suffered
remembering our great chief

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and have given him much of what was ours

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and blackness has been
around us for 100 years.

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During this time, the
heartbeat of our people

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has been weak, and our
lifestyle has deteriorated

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to a devastating degree.

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Our people now suffer from the highest

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rates of unemployment, poverty, alcoholism

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and suicide in the country."

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So that really describes historical trauma

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and historical unresolved
grief and another quote that we

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have permission to use
is, and I always say we

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because I think of
collectively and about the

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Takini Network, but this is
about the passing of trauma

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across generations, and
we have permission to use

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this from a Lakota parent
who's in recovery from

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alcoholism and said, "I've
never bonded with any

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parental figures in my home.

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At seven years old, I could
be gone for days at a time

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and no one would look for me.

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I've never been to a boarding school,

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all of the abuse we've talked
about happened in my home.

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If it had happened by
strangers, maybe it wouldn't

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have been so bad, the
sexual abuse, the neglect,

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then I could blame it
all on another race."

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And then he adds that his parents were

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boarding school survivors
and that's where they learned

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to drink, that's where
they were physically

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and sexually abused, and
just started to pass that on

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until he got into recovery.

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And he also adds, "there ain't no calvary

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running around now, we're
doing it to ourselves.

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Everything is progressing as it should."

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So that's part of the
internalized depression

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and the passage of things on

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cross generations, if it
remains something that's

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unconscious and automatic
and internalized.

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The other sort of introductory
slide is that it in

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a lot of tribal communities,
but other oppressed populations

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in this country and in
the world, have multiple

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losses and high rates of trauma exposure.

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And we know now that trauma exposed

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the greater trauma
exposure, the greater risk

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for PTSD, is increased.

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So it's not that trauma
exposure per say causes PTSD,

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but the more that one is
exposed to ongoing trauma,

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the greater the risk
is for developing PTSD.

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So examples of that are death of

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just with one extended
family kinship network,

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death of five family members
killed in a collision by

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a drunk driver on a reservation road.

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And then death of a diabetic relative,

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a cousin's suicide
attack, another relative

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dying from a heart attack,
and we have high rates

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of diabetes and heart
disease in Native communites

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and surviving family
members include individuals

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who are descendants of massacres and

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boarding school, abuse
at boarding schools.

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So many community members
feel like they're always

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in a constant state of mourning and always

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attending funeral.

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So there's not really enough time

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to recover from one trauma
before another trauma occurs.

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And cumulative, I talk
about cumulative wounding

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acrss generations so cumulative
is that layering effect

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of the trauma.

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I often use the analogy
when I'm talking with

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tribal communities, I'm gonna date myself,

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I used to use Dagwood's
sandwiches as an example

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and for those of you who
are old enough to remember

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Dagwood comics, and then
for the younger folks

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I started saying double
Whoppers with cheese

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and I know most people have eaten so

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or triple whoppers with
cheese and now I say,

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because there are a lot of casinos,

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cards, decks of cards.

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So if you think of each card
as a trauma, loss, or grief

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and then just the layering and stacking

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on top of one another.

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So that's part of that layering effect.

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So what I'm gonna talk about is the

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historical trauma and unresolved grief,

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framework, and little bit
about the response features

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and inter-generational manifestations.

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We'll talk a lot too about the development

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of the historical trauma and
unresolved grief intervention

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and the kind of work that I'm doing now.

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So I'll start with a kind
of a background of the

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developing this work so
this is setting the stage

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and I'll have to see
if this works if I just

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have to click on the actual slide

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or if I go forward.

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This I haven't done in
this kind of a format

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so we'll see, no I have to see it's...

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I think I click on the slide.

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Oh well.

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This is technologically...

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This stuff is not working
so we'll see what happens.

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There, yay.

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So it shows you visually
the loss of native lands

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and the remaining reservation
so that's actually a

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very powerful thing.

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This is just right off the internet so

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there are lots of maps
that you can look at but

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that one was pretty powerful and visual.

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So currently there are 566
federally recognized tribes

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but there are a number of
state recognized tribes

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and non-federally or state
recognized tribal communities

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surviving in the United States and

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so we're 1.7% of the population which is

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not a lot so a citation that I always

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recommend to people is by Steven Pevar who

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has a book called "The
Rights of American Indians

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and Tribes" and it's a really
good read for everybody.

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Native and non-Native folks
but it's a really easy read,

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it's been updated to include
modern social policies

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but it talks about all
of the things that affect

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and govern and regulate
Native people's lives so

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it's really good to look at that.

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So there's a congressional
policy that really outlined

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genocide so I'd like to talk about that.

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So one of the congressional
resolutions was,

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this one was in if I remember correctly

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I used to have this in the Powerpoint but

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around 1871, which was a resolution to

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do away with treaties.

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There's a historian
named Helen Tanner that

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was with the Newberry Library in Chicago

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at the D'Arcy McNickle Center for the

253
00:13:05.374 --> 00:13:08.694
History of the American
Indian, and she gave me

254
00:13:08.694 --> 00:13:13.054
a copy of a document that
she was commissioned by

255
00:13:13.054 --> 00:13:16.594
the US Supreme Court in 1980s for

256
00:13:16.594 --> 00:13:20.294
the Black Hill's landclaim
case, and she was asked by

257
00:13:20.294 --> 00:13:23.614
the Supreme Court to chronicle all the

258
00:13:23.614 --> 00:13:26.094
dealings of the United
States' goverment with the

259
00:13:26.094 --> 00:13:28.934
Lakota, Dakota, and Nakota, which is also

260
00:13:28.934 --> 00:13:30.814
known as the Sioux
Nation but we don't call

261
00:13:30.814 --> 00:13:31.924
ourselves that.

262
00:13:33.034 --> 00:13:38.034
Since 1852 is as far back as she went so

263
00:13:38.494 --> 00:13:41.414
1852 was the first documented attack on a

264
00:13:41.414 --> 00:13:44.814
peaceful Lakota camp, which
was near Fort Laramie,

265
00:13:44.814 --> 00:13:48.174
Wyoming and so she takes
that history all the way

266
00:13:48.174 --> 00:13:51.614
through, she talks about
boarding school abuses,

267
00:13:51.614 --> 00:13:54.574
and she says that the US government never

268
00:13:54.574 --> 00:13:57.854
intended for the long-term
suvival of the Lakota.

269
00:13:57.854 --> 00:14:01.374
The initial policy was
extermination, but because of

270
00:14:01.374 --> 00:14:06.374
the Civil War, it became
the wars against...

271
00:14:06.874 --> 00:14:11.174
We gave the calvary a run for its money,

272
00:14:11.174 --> 00:14:14.734
so it became really
challenging and expensive

273
00:14:14.734 --> 00:14:18.274
to keep that up so
that's why they moved to

274
00:14:18.274 --> 00:14:20.344
negotiating treaties with tribes.

275
00:14:20.654 --> 00:14:23.414
So it wasn't out of an altruism per say,

276
00:14:23.414 --> 00:14:26.074
or recognition of Native land rights,

277
00:14:26.074 --> 00:14:29.524
but it was more of a
socioeconomic reality.

278
00:14:29.674 --> 00:14:33.534
And Helen Tanner is a
European-American historian,

279
00:14:33.534 --> 00:14:35.664
she's not a Native historian.

280
00:14:36.254 --> 00:14:39.494
So I was pretty blown away by that when I

281
00:14:39.494 --> 00:14:44.014
read that and that was
part of her document

282
00:14:44.014 --> 00:14:49.014
so then around 1871 is when Congress

283
00:14:49.654 --> 00:14:54.434
moved to no longer negotiating
treaties with tribes

284
00:14:54.434 --> 00:14:56.134
and basically said that

285
00:14:56.134 --> 00:14:58.434
we are to have no further
recognition of our

286
00:14:58.434 --> 00:15:00.214
rights to the lands over which we roam

287
00:15:00.214 --> 00:15:02.834
and we are to go upon said reservations

288
00:15:02.834 --> 00:15:04.774
and to have no alternative but to choose

289
00:15:04.774 --> 00:15:08.124
between this policy of the
government and extermination.

290
00:15:08.914 --> 00:15:11.874
So and I read this
myself, I actually had a

291
00:15:11.874 --> 00:15:14.454
fellowship, if it's
still in existence, for

292
00:15:14.454 --> 00:15:17.654
American Indian women at the
Newberry Library in Chicago,

293
00:15:17.654 --> 00:15:19.514
it's the D'Arcy McNickle
Center for the History

294
00:15:19.514 --> 00:15:20.684
of the American Indian.

295
00:15:20.734 --> 00:15:23.594
They also have other
kinds of fellowships for

296
00:15:23.594 --> 00:15:25.934
tribal college folks and
other people that wanna go

297
00:15:25.934 --> 00:15:28.074
and use the library area and it's not

298
00:15:28.074 --> 00:15:30.734
related to behavioral
health at all but it's

299
00:15:30.734 --> 00:15:34.254
historical and
anthropological references and

300
00:15:34.254 --> 00:15:36.284
so it's a really good resource.

301
00:15:37.234 --> 00:15:40.054
So I looked at a lot
of government documents

302
00:15:40.054 --> 00:15:42.224
when I was working on my dissertation.

303
00:15:43.014 --> 00:15:45.025
And then the Bureau of Indian Affairs

304
00:15:45.025 --> 00:15:47.135
started out under the war department.

305
00:15:47.565 --> 00:15:52.415
And the Bureau of Indian
Affairs became responsible

306
00:15:52.415 --> 00:15:56.180
for our educational services,
our social services.

307
00:15:56.430 --> 00:16:00.610
Indian health service evolved from the BIA

308
00:16:00.610 --> 00:16:04.550
so that then was moved over
to health and human services

309
00:16:04.550 --> 00:16:09.550
so both BIA and IHS have this legacy of

310
00:16:09.990 --> 00:16:12.530
coming from the war department and

311
00:16:12.530 --> 00:16:16.170
around 1824, the BIA was moved to the

312
00:16:16.170 --> 00:16:18.710
Department of the
Interior, but on the floors

313
00:16:18.710 --> 00:16:21.560
of Congress 'cause I
read a lot of that too,

314
00:16:21.560 --> 00:16:23.890
there were debates all through the later

315
00:16:23.890 --> 00:16:27.310
1800s about moving it back
to the war department.

316
00:16:27.891 --> 00:16:30.811
So there's that hostile
legacy and of course

317
00:16:30.811 --> 00:16:34.771
because I'm very very
clinical, very psychoanalytic,

318
00:16:34.771 --> 00:16:38.341
psychodynamic, which was my attraction to

319
00:16:38.341 --> 00:16:42.331
coming to Smith and when I
got my masters at Columbia,

320
00:16:42.331 --> 00:16:45.931
I graduated in '76, it was
still very psychoanalytic

321
00:16:45.931 --> 00:16:47.711
and psychodynamic there, and I did some

322
00:16:47.711 --> 00:16:51.111
psychoanalytic training,
I really believe a lot

323
00:16:51.111 --> 00:16:53.371
in the power of messages and unconscious

324
00:16:53.371 --> 00:16:56.391
things that we're aware
of so, lot of our tribal

325
00:16:56.391 --> 00:16:59.911
communities are named
after forts, and are named

326
00:16:59.911 --> 00:17:04.911
after different army
colonels and personnel that

327
00:17:05.491 --> 00:17:09.171
were perpetrated
massacres on our people so

328
00:17:09.171 --> 00:17:12.071
I think that has an unconscious process.

329
00:17:12.071 --> 00:17:14.791
A lot of tribal communities
are changing those names,

330
00:17:14.791 --> 00:17:17.171
or working at doing
that, but I think that's

331
00:17:17.171 --> 00:17:18.521
an important thing.

332
00:17:19.051 --> 00:17:23.931
So and then the Bureau of Indian Affairs

333
00:17:23.931 --> 00:17:26.111
Education Division, used to be called the

334
00:17:26.111 --> 00:17:29.701
Civilization Division which
is kind of interesting

335
00:17:29.701 --> 00:17:32.191
and that there was a
congressional policy of

336
00:17:32.191 --> 00:17:35.811
forced separation of
children and family from

337
00:17:35.811 --> 00:17:38.771
all tribal influence and
was very militaristic

338
00:17:38.771 --> 00:17:42.591
so I think it's important
to call our history genocide

339
00:17:42.591 --> 00:17:44.451
because it does meet the United Nations

340
00:17:44.451 --> 00:17:47.051
Geneva Convention definition on genocide,

341
00:17:47.051 --> 00:17:51.601
which by the way the US
didn't sign until the 1980s

342
00:17:51.601 --> 00:17:54.262
and I keep forgetting to put
it in the Powerpoint because

343
00:17:54.262 --> 00:17:56.152
I'm so appalled by that fact.

344
00:17:57.863 --> 00:18:01.563
But anyways so that is important to

345
00:18:01.563 --> 00:18:04.303
tell us, so there's some quotes about that

346
00:18:04.303 --> 00:18:08.923
sort of support, that
contention of that our history

347
00:18:08.923 --> 00:18:11.293
does meet the definition of genocide.

348
00:18:11.783 --> 00:18:14.023
So this is from a video
called Wiping the Tears

349
00:18:14.023 --> 00:18:16.923
of Seven Generations, it's
about the Big Foot Memorial

350
00:18:16.923 --> 00:18:21.223
Ride which took place in 1990 that I

351
00:18:21.223 --> 00:18:26.083
alluded to earlier so a quote
from General Sherman was,

352
00:18:26.083 --> 00:18:28.543
"first clear off the buffalo,
then clear off the Indian.

353
00:18:28.543 --> 00:18:31.203
We must act with vindictive
earnest against the Sioux,

354
00:18:31.203 --> 00:18:34.513
even to their total extermination,
men women and children."

355
00:18:35.203 --> 00:18:38.123
And another one from a former faculty at

356
00:18:38.123 --> 00:18:41.263
Oglala Lakota College, Patrick Cudmore,

357
00:18:41.263 --> 00:18:43.543
who was talking about
the loss of lives in the

358
00:18:43.543 --> 00:18:48.543
original conservative estimates
about how many Native people

359
00:18:48.903 --> 00:18:52.983
actually lived in the
United States land area

360
00:18:52.983 --> 00:18:55.923
and he said, "never before
in the whole of human history

361
00:18:55.923 --> 00:18:58.703
has the near extermination
of a race been so total

362
00:18:58.703 --> 00:19:01.373
and complete as it was
in the United States."

363
00:19:02.063 --> 00:19:06.343
And I already mentioned
to you about Helen Tanner

364
00:19:06.343 --> 00:19:11.343
so in 1890 that was the backdrop for the

365
00:19:12.163 --> 00:19:14.743
Wounded Knee Massacre, that time period.

366
00:19:14.743 --> 00:19:17.323
So at that point our
people were confined to

367
00:19:17.323 --> 00:19:20.693
reservations, dependent
on government rations.

368
00:19:21.063 --> 00:19:23.963
There was decimation of the buffalo so

369
00:19:23.963 --> 00:19:28.963
that people were unable to
live in the traditional way

370
00:19:29.943 --> 00:19:32.374
and the importance of
the Wounded Knee Massacre

371
00:19:32.374 --> 00:19:35.094
in 1890, even though it
happened to the Lakota,

372
00:19:35.094 --> 00:19:38.534
it became sort of a
symbol for a lot of tribal

373
00:19:38.534 --> 00:19:43.194
communities because it was
one of the last massacres

374
00:19:43.194 --> 00:19:46.304
that occurred in terms of Native history.

375
00:19:47.564 --> 00:19:50.645
At the time, the (speaks
in foreign language),

376
00:19:50.645 --> 00:19:55.312
the Ghost Dance was
something that came from the

377
00:19:55.312 --> 00:20:00.312
Paiutes in Nevada but
spread to other tribes

378
00:20:00.732 --> 00:20:04.860
and part of that was, in
my opinion and I wrote

379
00:20:04.860 --> 00:20:09.020
about that in my doctoral
dissertation, which is that

380
00:20:09.020 --> 00:20:11.340
I think it was also a
manifestation of sort of

381
00:20:11.340 --> 00:20:14.280
collective acute grief
reaction because part of it

382
00:20:14.280 --> 00:20:17.629
was, if you danced and
prayed you would be reunited

383
00:20:17.629 --> 00:20:20.387
with your ancestors who had been deceased.

384
00:20:20.387 --> 00:20:23.027
The buffalo would return and then

385
00:20:23.027 --> 00:20:25.747
there was a kind of a passive element that

386
00:20:25.747 --> 00:20:30.667
passive with some sort
of veiled aggression from

387
00:20:30.667 --> 00:20:33.467
the Lakota version of the Ghost Dance

388
00:20:33.467 --> 00:20:35.707
which was that the white
people would just disappear

389
00:20:35.707 --> 00:20:38.427
from the Earth so not that
there'd be any hostile acts

390
00:20:38.427 --> 00:20:40.787
but the problem would just go away

391
00:20:40.787 --> 00:20:42.877
and the old way of life would return.

392
00:20:43.027 --> 00:20:45.787
So people were starving,
they were desperate,

393
00:20:45.787 --> 00:20:50.787
there was illness, there
was just total loss of lives

394
00:20:51.727 --> 00:20:53.817
and way of life.

395
00:20:54.207 --> 00:20:57.887
And actually, it's really
important in terms of thinking

396
00:20:57.887 --> 00:21:00.927
about grief for Native
people, traditionally were

397
00:21:00.927 --> 00:21:04.407
very connected to the land,
to the animal nations,

398
00:21:04.407 --> 00:21:06.877
to the plant nations,
they're our relatives.

399
00:21:07.427 --> 00:21:10.897
And so we have grief also
about what's happened to them.

400
00:21:10.967 --> 00:21:13.487
We have a sacred relationship
with the buffalo so

401
00:21:13.487 --> 00:21:17.037
the loss of the buffalo was
very traumatic to our people.

402
00:21:17.247 --> 00:21:19.227
We believe that we descended from them

403
00:21:19.227 --> 00:21:21.857
and came out of the Black Hills.

404
00:21:21.857 --> 00:21:26.857
That's our oral history, part
of our oral creation stories

405
00:21:27.607 --> 00:21:32.607
so there's also mourning for those losses

406
00:21:33.207 --> 00:21:35.677
and those relatives,
they're seen as relatives.

407
00:21:37.407 --> 00:21:40.907
So that it's important to
look at the backdrop of grief.

408
00:21:40.907 --> 00:21:44.467
So I mentioned the boarding school era and

409
00:21:44.467 --> 00:21:47.587
this is something...

410
00:21:47.587 --> 00:21:49.667
Now it's interesting the
Treaty of Fort Laramie,

411
00:21:49.667 --> 00:21:54.187
which was never signed by
Sitting Bull or Crazy Horse

412
00:21:54.187 --> 00:21:56.027
'cause they were very
traditional and wouldn't

413
00:21:56.027 --> 00:22:01.027
sign treaties but the
Treaty of Fort Laramie

414
00:22:02.247 --> 00:22:06.327
actually asked for a regular
day school in the community

415
00:22:06.327 --> 00:22:10.107
and a teacher qualified
to teach the elementary

416
00:22:10.107 --> 00:22:13.787
branches of an English
education who will reside

417
00:22:13.787 --> 00:22:16.507
among said Indians, that's
the way it's phrased

418
00:22:16.507 --> 00:22:19.907
in the treaty, but what happened was that

419
00:22:19.907 --> 00:22:22.777
this is we got instead.

420
00:22:23.387 --> 00:22:28.387
And this was passed in
Congress, a year after the

421
00:22:29.607 --> 00:22:33.578
First National Indian
Boarding School in Carlisle,

422
00:22:33.578 --> 00:22:37.278
Pennsylvania, was established in 1879

423
00:22:37.278 --> 00:22:40.738
run by an army colonel name Henry Pratt,

424
00:22:40.738 --> 00:22:44.058
which is not what our ancestors agreed to.

425
00:22:44.058 --> 00:22:45.998
They wanted somebody who was a teacher

426
00:22:45.998 --> 00:22:48.578
who could educate the
people, and even Sitting Bull

427
00:22:48.578 --> 00:22:52.738
wanted schools for our children
so that we could understand

428
00:22:52.738 --> 00:22:55.568
and learn and cope better
with the changing world.

429
00:22:56.038 --> 00:22:59.198
So it says, "this bill provides for the

430
00:22:59.198 --> 00:23:01.318
utilization of vacant
military posts and barracks

431
00:23:01.318 --> 00:23:03.658
for the industrial
education of nomadic youth

432
00:23:03.658 --> 00:23:07.398
and the employment of officers
of the army as teachers

433
00:23:07.398 --> 00:23:11.428
or to be otherwise detailed
by the Department of War.

434
00:23:11.678 --> 00:23:13.638
Education is a means of
civilizing and elevating the

435
00:23:13.638 --> 00:23:16.078
savage has ceased to be
experimental, best results

436
00:23:16.078 --> 00:23:18.098
are obtained with the
removal of children from

437
00:23:18.098 --> 00:23:19.688
all tribal influence."

438
00:23:20.038 --> 00:23:22.148
So these schools were very traumatic.

439
00:23:23.458 --> 00:23:25.958
Carlisle was over 1,000 miles away from

440
00:23:25.958 --> 00:23:30.878
the Dakotas and the kids
would try to run away

441
00:23:30.878 --> 00:23:32.598
and parents would try
to get at their kids but

442
00:23:32.598 --> 00:23:34.838
if the parents didn't cooperate
they were incarcerated,

443
00:23:34.838 --> 00:23:37.978
kids were rounded up and
sent back to the school.

444
00:23:40.298 --> 00:23:44.208
Many kids did not survive the
boarding school experience.

445
00:23:45.178 --> 00:23:49.278
I know one tribe, not
in the Dakotas but in

446
00:23:49.278 --> 00:23:53.838
another state, this was
a number of years ago,

447
00:23:53.838 --> 00:23:56.698
remodeled a building that
was an old boarding school

448
00:23:56.698 --> 00:23:59.578
and they found human remains in the walls

449
00:23:59.578 --> 00:24:01.468
that were children's remains.

450
00:24:01.698 --> 00:24:03.818
So there were a lot of
children that just sort of

451
00:24:03.818 --> 00:24:05.918
never came home and people didn't know

452
00:24:05.918 --> 00:24:07.558
what had happened to them so there's

453
00:24:07.558 --> 00:24:10.348
a lot of horrendous abuses.

454
00:24:10.418 --> 00:24:13.398
This is the video that didn't work.

455
00:24:13.398 --> 00:24:15.918
I'm gonna play just a little bit of it

456
00:24:15.918 --> 00:24:18.098
for the background, not
because you're gonna be able

457
00:24:18.098 --> 00:24:20.548
to hear it, if I can
even get that to work.

458
00:24:21.318 --> 00:24:23.348
And no that's not gonna
work either I think.

459
00:24:24.578 --> 00:24:26.798
There's supposed to be
a thing that comes up

460
00:24:26.798 --> 00:24:29.798
but there is a video,
it's called Unseen Tears

461
00:24:29.798 --> 00:24:33.078
and this is something that a...

462
00:24:33.078 --> 00:24:36.418
Jeremiah Simmons who's a doctoral student

463
00:24:36.418 --> 00:24:41.208
in psychology at the
University of New Mexico

464
00:24:41.208 --> 00:24:44.918
found for me and had embedded this but...

465
00:24:44.918 --> 00:24:48.328
And it was working before, but oh well.

466
00:24:48.458 --> 00:24:50.318
Sometimes things like that happen and you

467
00:24:50.318 --> 00:24:52.588
just have to go with the flow.

468
00:24:52.698 --> 00:24:55.318
Like that song ♫ Let it go let it go ♫

469
00:24:55.318 --> 00:24:56.518
(audience laughs)

470
00:24:56.518 --> 00:24:58.328
I actually really like that song.

471
00:24:59.058 --> 00:25:02.118
So and my daughter's older
so I didn't have to be

472
00:25:02.118 --> 00:25:02.928
tortured by it.

473
00:25:02.928 --> 00:25:04.578
She's 29 so...

474
00:25:05.248 --> 00:25:10.248
Anyway so the impact of negative
boarding school experiences

475
00:25:10.468 --> 00:25:13.348
and I've pretty much covered
this but just thinking

476
00:25:13.348 --> 00:25:17.208
about abandonment issues
and not understanding

477
00:25:17.208 --> 00:25:19.528
why aren't my parents coming to get me,

478
00:25:19.528 --> 00:25:22.568
why aren't they rescuing me from this,

479
00:25:22.568 --> 00:25:27.248
and I have a friend who talked about his

480
00:25:27.248 --> 00:25:32.049
boarding school experiences
and he's probably around

481
00:25:32.049 --> 00:25:37.049
late 50s, close to 60,
and he talked about when

482
00:25:37.789 --> 00:25:40.529
his mother took him to
boarding school 'cause she had

483
00:25:40.529 --> 00:25:42.849
been in a boarding school
and had grown up in

484
00:25:42.849 --> 00:25:46.049
boarding school, so when she
took him to boarding school

485
00:25:46.049 --> 00:25:49.629
she kinda didn't know
how to prepare him for it

486
00:25:49.629 --> 00:25:51.429
so he thought they were going on a trip.

487
00:25:51.429 --> 00:25:56.429
Packed his bag, got to the
school, and they got his bags

488
00:25:56.649 --> 00:25:59.169
out of the car, there was
priests and nuns standing there,

489
00:25:59.169 --> 00:26:03.429
this was a Catholic
boarding school, and she

490
00:26:03.429 --> 00:26:06.189
got back in the car and
he realized that she

491
00:26:06.189 --> 00:26:09.229
was driving away, they
were not going on a trip,

492
00:26:09.229 --> 00:26:12.329
she was gonna leave him
there so he tried to

493
00:26:12.329 --> 00:26:16.229
chase after the car, and
the priest and the nun

494
00:26:16.229 --> 00:26:19.169
grabbed him and restrained
him and held him

495
00:26:19.169 --> 00:26:23.649
and he was crying and screaming and so

496
00:26:23.649 --> 00:26:28.369
we have people in our current
generations that have had

497
00:26:28.369 --> 00:26:31.759
horrendous traumatic
boarding school experiences.

498
00:26:32.389 --> 00:26:36.069
And experienced a lot of
physical and sexual abuse

499
00:26:36.069 --> 00:26:37.099
in boarding schools.

500
00:26:37.489 --> 00:26:41.449
Now there are, one thing
that's important to mention

501
00:26:41.449 --> 00:26:45.529
is that, not all boarding
schools are the same,

502
00:26:45.529 --> 00:26:47.279
the experience is the same.

503
00:26:48.349 --> 00:26:52.369
In the Dakotas we had particularly
negative boarding schools

504
00:26:52.369 --> 00:26:54.969
where an overwhelming
number of people talked

505
00:26:54.969 --> 00:26:57.849
about the problems in the boarding school

506
00:26:57.849 --> 00:26:59.349
and their experiences.

507
00:26:59.349 --> 00:27:03.509
However, other people had good
boarding school experiences

508
00:27:03.509 --> 00:27:06.809
and nothing is ever all
good or all bad, so people

509
00:27:06.809 --> 00:27:10.029
formed really close bonds
and friendships with one

510
00:27:10.029 --> 00:27:14.149
another in boarding schools
so that there were also

511
00:27:14.149 --> 00:27:16.429
some very positive memories as well.

512
00:27:16.429 --> 00:27:20.329
I like to mention that because
I think it's important to

513
00:27:20.329 --> 00:27:23.240
accept, and also clinically
when you're working

514
00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:26.500
with someone, you never
attack somebody's defenses,

515
00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:28.920
you never attack their way of coping so

516
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:32.020
if they're not ready to
talk about something,

517
00:27:32.020 --> 00:27:34.820
you just let it go and you
come back to it and you

518
00:27:34.820 --> 00:27:36.360
just kinda leave the door open,

519
00:27:36.360 --> 00:27:38.160
oh I was just wondering and sort of just

520
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.460
go on and talk about whatever
else you're gonna talk about

521
00:27:40.460 --> 00:27:43.600
but you've at least planted
a seed that it's okay

522
00:27:43.600 --> 00:27:44.800
to talk about it.

523
00:27:44.800 --> 00:27:47.720
One of the people that
I'll talk a little bit more

524
00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:50.740
about the research, but
one of the people in one

525
00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:54.660
of our groups that I remember,

526
00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:59.220
had survived some traumatic
boarding school experiences

527
00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:02.380
and had been in behavioral
health treatment a lot

528
00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:05.460
and had said before,
being in the group that

529
00:28:05.460 --> 00:28:08.520
was focusing on the
historical trauma worked.

530
00:28:08.520 --> 00:28:12.280
She had never been even
asked about, or invited

531
00:28:12.280 --> 00:28:14.600
to talk about her
boarding school experience

532
00:28:14.600 --> 00:28:18.840
and she felt very relieved
to be able to talk about it

533
00:28:18.840 --> 00:28:21.720
and very supported in being
able to talk about that

534
00:28:21.720 --> 00:28:23.130
traumatic experience.

535
00:28:24.300 --> 00:28:28.721
So I wanted to talk just about my early

536
00:28:28.721 --> 00:28:31.461
professional and academic
experience because a lot

537
00:28:31.461 --> 00:28:35.081
of people have been asking
about that in my stay here

538
00:28:35.081 --> 00:28:36.781
so I thought it would be good to sort of

539
00:28:36.781 --> 00:28:41.661
as an example, for people
and also just to clarify so

540
00:28:41.661 --> 00:28:43.821
some of this you already heard but

541
00:28:43.821 --> 00:28:47.401
my motivation for all of this
is my desire and commitment

542
00:28:47.401 --> 00:28:50.541
to the reduce the
suffering of Native peoples

543
00:28:50.541 --> 00:28:54.001
and that's what I'm all about
so I'm a woman on a mission

544
00:28:54.001 --> 00:28:59.001
and that's why I haven't
stayed at one institution,

545
00:28:59.081 --> 00:29:02.171
because it's sort of like
what's next what's next.

546
00:29:02.181 --> 00:29:05.861
So before I went to
Columbia, we actually had to

547
00:29:05.861 --> 00:29:09.751
join the faculty there, we had
a ceremony in South Dakota.

548
00:29:10.461 --> 00:29:13.521
And so it was something
that was blessed and

549
00:29:13.521 --> 00:29:16.981
something that my community
was felt was gonna be good

550
00:29:16.981 --> 00:29:20.221
for our people and that
was definitely the case.

551
00:29:20.221 --> 00:29:23.022
Two of our consultants now on our

552
00:29:23.022 --> 00:29:27.992
National Institute of Mental
Health, or NIMH grant are

553
00:29:27.992 --> 00:29:31.152
former colleagues at
Columbia at the med school.

554
00:29:31.762 --> 00:29:36.002
So these things are sort
of synergistic and you

555
00:29:36.002 --> 00:29:39.382
kind of have to trust the process and

556
00:29:39.382 --> 00:29:42.662
it's really great and I
had a lot of things that I

557
00:29:42.662 --> 00:29:45.452
learned through that experience.

558
00:29:45.452 --> 00:29:49.182
And what was really bizarre
is when I was graduating

559
00:29:49.182 --> 00:29:51.462
from Columbia, and I
had no interest in going

560
00:29:51.462 --> 00:29:54.162
in academia initially,
that was not my plan, I was

561
00:29:54.162 --> 00:29:55.492
just gonna be a clinician.

562
00:29:56.742 --> 00:29:58.122
Not just, I don't mean it like that,

563
00:29:58.122 --> 00:30:01.062
but I wasn't gonna go into
academia 'cause clinical work

564
00:30:01.062 --> 00:30:04.202
is really important and really
difficult and I still do,

565
00:30:04.202 --> 00:30:08.002
my work is clinical
intervention research so it

566
00:30:08.002 --> 00:30:09.912
still is clinical.

567
00:30:11.062 --> 00:30:13.502
But I didn't have any
intention of going into

568
00:30:13.502 --> 00:30:15.822
academia but I had a fleeting thought that

569
00:30:15.822 --> 00:30:17.682
oh maybe I'd like to come
back here and teach someday

570
00:30:17.682 --> 00:30:22.362
at Columbia, and then I
never remembered that thought

571
00:30:22.362 --> 00:30:25.782
until later and then the
search committee called me

572
00:30:25.782 --> 00:30:29.242
and said, "hey would you
like to apply?" and I said,

573
00:30:29.242 --> 00:30:30.082
"oh okay."

574
00:30:30.082 --> 00:30:34.962
It was wierd, so I think
sometimes things are very

575
00:30:34.962 --> 00:30:36.912
more than coincidental.

576
00:30:38.602 --> 00:30:43.602
So I developed this out of that
clinical practice experience

577
00:30:44.202 --> 00:30:47.922
but also having this sense
of carrying grief that was

578
00:30:47.922 --> 00:30:50.422
larger than myself and my own community

579
00:30:50.422 --> 00:30:52.822
and I remember specific
time I was lookin' at some

580
00:30:52.822 --> 00:30:56.044
historical photographs
and just got overwhelmed

581
00:30:56.044 --> 00:30:59.384
with the sense of grief
and at that time then

582
00:30:59.384 --> 00:31:03.324
made a conscious connection
that American Indians

583
00:31:03.324 --> 00:31:08.324
are trauma survivors and that we share

584
00:31:08.504 --> 00:31:12.204
some things in common
with our Jewish Holocaust

585
00:31:12.204 --> 00:31:17.204
communities and made
that sort of analogy and

586
00:31:17.224 --> 00:31:22.224
all of my Holocaust
friends and colleagues are

587
00:31:22.364 --> 00:31:24.394
not offended by that in any way.

588
00:31:24.764 --> 00:31:26.654
And actually are very supportive.

589
00:31:27.804 --> 00:31:32.804
And we had some conferences
that we did back in 2001,

590
00:31:33.364 --> 00:31:36.904
2003, and 2004, where
we brought together--

591
00:31:36.904 --> 00:31:38.844
I mean we as a Native
people hosted it, the

592
00:31:38.844 --> 00:31:41.804
Takini Network, we were the ones who

593
00:31:41.804 --> 00:31:44.667
sponsored it, but we
invited other massively

594
00:31:44.667 --> 00:31:47.287
traumatized populations to be with us

595
00:31:47.287 --> 00:31:50.307
and to share, and we
shared our trauma stories,

596
00:31:50.307 --> 00:31:54.107
our ways of working and with one another

597
00:31:54.107 --> 00:31:57.858
and what we could learn
from one another and--

598
00:31:57.858 --> 00:31:58.638
Pardon me?

599
00:31:58.638 --> 00:31:59.718
- [Audience Member 1] Palestinians too.

600
00:31:59.718 --> 00:32:03.818
- Yes we didn't have any
Palestinians at that conference

601
00:32:03.818 --> 00:32:08.818
but yes, absolutely, so
we had in terms of...

602
00:32:09.358 --> 00:32:13.998
There was a woman who
was Palestinian I believe

603
00:32:13.998 --> 00:32:17.118
that was supposed to come and

604
00:32:17.118 --> 00:32:19.248
ended up not being able to come.

605
00:32:21.638 --> 00:32:24.218
But we had Japanese-Americans
dealing with the

606
00:32:24.218 --> 00:32:27.518
internment camp survival,
African-Americans,

607
00:32:27.518 --> 00:32:29.938
we had Maya refugees
who were originally from

608
00:32:29.938 --> 00:32:34.618
Guatemala but were from
Grupo Maya in San Francisco,

609
00:32:34.618 --> 00:32:37.078
we of course had all the
indigenous peoples of the

610
00:32:37.078 --> 00:32:42.078
Americas, the US, and
Canada represented and

611
00:32:42.618 --> 00:32:46.398
I'm wondering if I'm missing anybody but

612
00:32:46.398 --> 00:32:51.018
we had a lot of indigenous
people that came so

613
00:32:51.018 --> 00:32:55.478
it's really important to
look at of those collective

614
00:32:55.478 --> 00:32:58.758
oppressions and that it was really a

615
00:32:58.758 --> 00:33:00.748
very powerful experience.

616
00:33:04.099 --> 00:33:07.999
So we continued talking about the...

617
00:33:07.999 --> 00:33:11.379
I continued doing presentations
and my involvement

618
00:33:11.379 --> 00:33:14.919
with the Sitting Bull and
Big Foot Memorial Ride

619
00:33:14.919 --> 00:33:17.799
and then my doctoral
dissertation which I put up

620
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:20.519
here only because this is Smith

621
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:23.439
and I've said Smith doctoral dissertation

622
00:33:23.439 --> 00:33:27.279
but it's Return to the
Sacred Path, Healing from

623
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.979
Historical Trauma and
Historical Unresolved Grief

624
00:33:29.979 --> 00:33:31.289
from Among the Lakota.

625
00:33:31.699 --> 00:33:36.269
And I finished that and graduated in 1995.

626
00:33:37.099 --> 00:33:41.239
So this is just a
picture of Chief Big Foot

627
00:33:41.239 --> 00:33:44.299
who was also known as
Uŋpȟáŋ Glešká which is

628
00:33:44.299 --> 00:33:45.889
Spotted Elk.

629
00:33:46.719 --> 00:33:48.689
So he had another name.

630
00:33:52.699 --> 00:33:56.729
And he was killed during
the Wounded Knee Massacre.

631
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.379
So this is my definition
of historical trauma

632
00:34:00.379 --> 00:34:02.379
and historical unresolved
grief, so I define

633
00:34:02.379 --> 00:34:05.157
historical trauma as cumulative
emotional and psychological

634
00:34:05.157 --> 00:34:08.737
wounding across generations,
including one's own lifespan,

635
00:34:08.737 --> 00:34:11.557
because everything up to
a minute ago is history

636
00:34:11.557 --> 00:34:13.917
but I wanted to ground
it in the collective

637
00:34:13.917 --> 00:34:18.917
historical traumatic past and
which I thought was really

638
00:34:19.297 --> 00:34:22.557
important and in my experience is

639
00:34:22.557 --> 00:34:27.557
Native people feel very empowered by that

640
00:34:27.837 --> 00:34:31.687
because it destigmatizes
what's going on now

641
00:34:31.687 --> 00:34:35.037
for people and it reduces
the self-blame, it sort of

642
00:34:35.037 --> 00:34:37.757
opens people up to saying...

643
00:34:37.757 --> 00:34:42.757
Much like the survivor's
child complex that

644
00:34:42.757 --> 00:34:47.677
many of the Jewish Holocaust
theorists talk about

645
00:34:47.677 --> 00:34:49.957
that it's a similar kind of concept.

646
00:34:49.957 --> 00:34:52.577
It's not a diagnosis, it's not a disorder,

647
00:34:52.577 --> 00:34:55.417
it's not pathology, but
it's a response or a

648
00:34:55.417 --> 00:34:57.817
reaction to all of these
horrible things that happened

649
00:34:57.817 --> 00:34:59.407
to a whole group of people.

650
00:34:59.817 --> 00:35:02.427
So you're not alone in that.

651
00:35:02.857 --> 00:35:06.317
And then the historical
unresolved grief is the grief

652
00:35:06.317 --> 00:35:08.077
that goes along with that because there's

653
00:35:08.077 --> 00:35:10.987
a lot of loss of course.

654
00:35:11.337 --> 00:35:14.177
And the historical trauma
response is a constellation of

655
00:35:14.177 --> 00:35:17.787
group of features in reaction
to the massive group trauma.

656
00:35:17.917 --> 00:35:20.917
So some of the Jewish Holocaust literature

657
00:35:20.917 --> 00:35:23.356
is the largest body of literature still on

658
00:35:23.356 --> 00:35:26.426
intergenerational massive group trauma.

659
00:35:28.557 --> 00:35:30.917
But there's also literature on the

660
00:35:30.917 --> 00:35:32.817
Japanese-American internment camp.

661
00:35:32.817 --> 00:35:37.277
A former faculty member
at Smith in psychology

662
00:35:37.277 --> 00:35:42.277
is Donna Nagata and she
was with us at least

663
00:35:42.297 --> 00:35:46.697
our initial conference and
Rita Takahashi who was from

664
00:35:46.697 --> 00:35:48.837
San Francisco State University, if I'm

665
00:35:48.837 --> 00:35:52.257
remembering correctly, who
did a lot on the redress

666
00:35:52.257 --> 00:35:55.257
around the Japanese
internment but Donna Nagata

667
00:35:55.257 --> 00:35:59.397
works with the second
generation, the survivors or

668
00:35:59.397 --> 00:36:02.357
descendants of the
internment camp survivors,

669
00:36:02.357 --> 00:36:04.547
both the survivors and
then the descendants.

670
00:36:04.837 --> 00:36:09.137
And what we found in the conference,

671
00:36:09.137 --> 00:36:11.857
in the work, is how much we had in common,

672
00:36:11.857 --> 00:36:15.417
just as massive group
trauma survivors across

673
00:36:15.417 --> 00:36:17.577
different groups, regardless of the

674
00:36:17.577 --> 00:36:21.597
details of the history, so we
kind of all came together and

675
00:36:21.597 --> 00:36:26.597
transcended some of those differences and

676
00:36:27.117 --> 00:36:30.047
developed as allies.

677
00:36:30.057 --> 00:36:33.597
I didn't have included
on this list because

678
00:36:33.597 --> 00:36:36.157
there was less literature
at the time initially

679
00:36:36.157 --> 00:36:39.697
on the African-American
experience but in terms

680
00:36:39.697 --> 00:36:42.137
of the legacy of slavery,
but one of our later

681
00:36:42.137 --> 00:36:45.637
conferences we had somebody who--

682
00:36:45.637 --> 00:36:50.197
Joy Degraw-Oleary who presented on

683
00:36:50.197 --> 00:36:54.737
what she calls post
traumatic slave syndrome and

684
00:36:54.737 --> 00:36:57.777
there have been some books
and some writing about that

685
00:36:57.777 --> 00:37:01.437
and efforts at healing
where some African-Americans

686
00:37:01.437 --> 00:37:04.737
are going back to the place
where most of the slave ships

687
00:37:04.737 --> 00:37:08.357
left in Africa, because a
lot of people can't trace

688
00:37:08.357 --> 00:37:12.117
their traditional tribal
ancestry, but they're doing that

689
00:37:12.117 --> 00:37:16.257
in terms of healing and some
people decide to actually

690
00:37:16.257 --> 00:37:19.787
to stay there, I saw some
documentaries on that before.

691
00:37:20.637 --> 00:37:24.758
So this has relevance
for all of the massively

692
00:37:24.758 --> 00:37:29.018
traumatized populations
so I kept developing

693
00:37:29.018 --> 00:37:33.338
things and then got SAMHSA grants.

694
00:37:33.338 --> 00:37:36.958
Actually the dissertation research I got a

695
00:37:36.958 --> 00:37:40.918
SAMHSA grant for 'cause they have like

696
00:37:40.918 --> 00:37:44.188
for conferences so I kind
of ran it as a conference.

697
00:37:46.298 --> 00:37:48.518
At the time I was talking
with somebody about

698
00:37:48.518 --> 00:37:53.169
a dissertation grant through
NIMH, but there was a bit

699
00:37:53.169 --> 00:37:56.189
of a barrier in terms of
not having a control group,

700
00:37:56.189 --> 00:37:59.529
I had more of a pre-post
test design and one of the

701
00:37:59.529 --> 00:38:02.389
suggestions was well you
can withhold ceremonies

702
00:38:02.389 --> 00:38:05.509
from half of the people and I
said, "no you can't do that."

703
00:38:05.509 --> 00:38:09.729
That's a very sacred thing
so I didn't pursue that any

704
00:38:09.729 --> 00:38:12.369
further and also I didn't
have the time, I didn't wanna

705
00:38:12.369 --> 00:38:16.749
delay so I got $50,000 from SAMHSA as a

706
00:38:16.749 --> 00:38:18.569
conference grant and ran that through the

707
00:38:18.569 --> 00:38:20.609
American Indian Institute which is at the

708
00:38:20.609 --> 00:38:22.669
University of Oklahoma,
only because I was really

709
00:38:22.669 --> 00:38:25.349
good friends with the
former director there,

710
00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:28.059
Anita Chisholm, and she was
really really supportive.

711
00:38:28.269 --> 00:38:32.049
So I just was creative
about how to do things

712
00:38:32.049 --> 00:38:33.929
and then we got a lot of SAMHSA grants,

713
00:38:33.929 --> 00:38:36.640
formed the Takini Network and
I'll say a little bit more

714
00:38:36.640 --> 00:38:39.820
about that and as we go along and then

715
00:38:39.820 --> 00:38:42.260
eventually the historical
trauma and unresolved grief

716
00:38:42.260 --> 00:38:47.260
intervention was selected
as a tribal best practice

717
00:38:47.340 --> 00:38:50.900
by First Nationals Behavioral
Health Association and

718
00:38:50.900 --> 00:38:52.900
the Pacific Substance
Abuse in Mental Health

719
00:38:52.900 --> 00:38:57.780
collaborating counsel in
conjunction with SAMHSA so

720
00:38:57.780 --> 00:39:01.460
I'm just running all over the
place, presenting a lot of

721
00:39:01.460 --> 00:39:04.640
historical trauma
presentations to different

722
00:39:04.640 --> 00:39:08.460
tribal communites and then developing

723
00:39:08.460 --> 00:39:10.120
further work on that.

724
00:39:10.120 --> 00:39:14.180
So takini and takini's
a Lakota word that means

725
00:39:14.180 --> 00:39:16.700
survivor or to come back
to life and I really

726
00:39:16.700 --> 00:39:21.700
like that, the to come
back to life part of it so

727
00:39:22.240 --> 00:39:27.060
these are some ancestors who
are Wounded Knee Massacre

728
00:39:27.060 --> 00:39:31.360
survivors and three of
nine brothers survived

729
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:34.700
and so our people have testimonies because

730
00:39:34.700 --> 00:39:38.400
people who survived had
scars and so our people

731
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:40.610
witnessed that.

732
00:39:44.060 --> 00:39:48.350
So my work is spiritually
and culturally grounded.

733
00:39:48.900 --> 00:39:51.020
And that's something
that's really important

734
00:39:51.020 --> 00:39:54.730
and that has kept me going, believe me.

735
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:58.620
I was actually asked by,
when I did the dissertation

736
00:39:58.620 --> 00:40:01.760
workshop, I was asked by an elder to

737
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:05.050
lead our people in the
historical trauma work.

738
00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:09.180
And that was at the end
of the intervention,

739
00:40:09.180 --> 00:40:14.180
the first one in 1992
which we had at Sylvan Lake

740
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:19.060
in the Black Hills, and
I chose that location

741
00:40:19.060 --> 00:40:21.700
actually intuitively and
then later learned that

742
00:40:21.700 --> 00:40:25.360
that was a place where
Sitting Bull had had a vision

743
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:29.520
and in that vision he had an eagle

744
00:40:29.520 --> 00:40:32.340
that came to him and then
turned into a man and told him

745
00:40:32.340 --> 00:40:34.680
that he was responsible for protecting

746
00:40:34.680 --> 00:40:37.700
the Lakota nation and
he took that to heart

747
00:40:37.700 --> 00:40:41.300
for the rest of his life and

748
00:40:41.300 --> 00:40:44.600
as a result of that I
think was part of why he

749
00:40:44.600 --> 00:40:47.401
was assassinated in 1890.

750
00:40:48.231 --> 00:40:52.251
But he was staunchly traditional and

751
00:40:52.251 --> 00:40:54.881
very much wanting to protect the people.

752
00:40:55.011 --> 00:40:57.811
It's also a location near
Harney Peak which is where

753
00:40:57.811 --> 00:41:02.811
Black Elk, some of you have
heard of Black Elk Speaks or

754
00:41:04.491 --> 00:41:06.831
I forgot the other name of the book that

755
00:41:06.831 --> 00:41:10.051
Black Elk talks about but
kind of talks about the

756
00:41:10.051 --> 00:41:15.051
Lakota sacred rights and ceremonies and

757
00:41:16.811 --> 00:41:20.251
also that the Black
Hills is a spiritual home

758
00:41:20.251 --> 00:41:24.131
and soothing place so it's kind of like

759
00:41:24.131 --> 00:41:28.631
Winnicott's holding
environment, in a traditional

760
00:41:28.631 --> 00:41:31.941
kind of conceptualization of that.

761
00:41:33.011 --> 00:41:38.011
And when I was developing
the dissertation and

762
00:41:38.091 --> 00:41:42.731
the workshop, the intervention for 1992,

763
00:41:42.731 --> 00:41:45.211
I actually asked, I mean from day one

764
00:41:45.211 --> 00:41:48.531
everything was spiritually
guided, I asked for prayers

765
00:41:48.531 --> 00:41:51.311
from the Sitting Bull Sundance Committee

766
00:41:51.311 --> 00:41:53.911
because I wanted it to be really sacred

767
00:41:53.911 --> 00:41:58.651
and healing and that was
really important to me so

768
00:41:58.651 --> 00:42:01.991
the Takini Network, we morphed into the

769
00:42:01.991 --> 00:42:03.801
Takini Institute now.

770
00:42:04.511 --> 00:42:07.731
We actually have no
funding, but we do the work,

771
00:42:07.731 --> 00:42:11.651
we get the funding through
other ways of doing that

772
00:42:11.651 --> 00:42:15.011
but we're still doing the work and

773
00:42:15.011 --> 00:42:18.651
so we're committed to
our traditional spiritual

774
00:42:18.651 --> 00:42:21.581
practices and staying grounded.

775
00:42:22.371 --> 00:42:24.671
Living according to our
(speaks foreign language)

776
00:42:24.671 --> 00:42:26.531
which are our seven laws which include

777
00:42:26.531 --> 00:42:30.931
generosity, compassion, humility, respect,

778
00:42:30.931 --> 00:42:33.031
kind of that understanding
of the sacredness

779
00:42:33.031 --> 00:42:35.601
of all of creation.

780
00:42:36.291 --> 00:42:40.371
And we see ourselves as
survivors and learners

781
00:42:40.371 --> 00:42:42.721
and no one is above another.

782
00:42:43.411 --> 00:42:48.071
So I think I shared some
of this, but the way

783
00:42:48.071 --> 00:42:51.991
that we did the dissertation
and the intervention

784
00:42:51.991 --> 00:42:54.771
that first one, was we
had a four day training

785
00:42:54.771 --> 00:42:59.771
of the trainers, so we
had male and female pairs

786
00:43:00.331 --> 00:43:03.031
for the larger training, then
broke up into small groups

787
00:43:03.031 --> 00:43:05.931
so we trained those people in that

788
00:43:05.931 --> 00:43:08.851
and the idea was to sort of spread this

789
00:43:08.851 --> 00:43:13.851
and to have people have that capacity for

790
00:43:14.231 --> 00:43:17.431
doing those things and
we included clinicians

791
00:43:17.431 --> 00:43:21.451
and service providers,
people who were counselors,

792
00:43:21.451 --> 00:43:25.911
spiritual leaders, Sundance
helpers and leaders,

793
00:43:25.911 --> 00:43:29.551
and we required that
people, if they weren't

794
00:43:29.551 --> 00:43:32.131
clean and sober or drug and alcohol free,

795
00:43:32.131 --> 00:43:33.901
abstain during that time.

796
00:43:34.671 --> 00:43:38.211
And that's partly because,
traditionally Lakota,

797
00:43:38.211 --> 00:43:41.411
we had no mind or mood altering substances

798
00:43:41.411 --> 00:43:43.901
and we didn't even
traditionally use tobacco.

799
00:43:44.191 --> 00:43:49.191
It was red willow bark,
so we didn't have drugs

800
00:43:49.531 --> 00:43:51.871
and people don't understand that.

801
00:43:51.871 --> 00:43:56.171
So all of our visions and
spiritual experience were

802
00:43:56.171 --> 00:43:58.871
induced just through
ceremony, through prayer,

803
00:43:58.871 --> 00:44:02.511
through fasting and so
that's one thing that

804
00:44:02.511 --> 00:44:06.391
we can be very proud of because it's also

805
00:44:06.391 --> 00:44:08.751
something that can be used in prevention.

806
00:44:08.751 --> 00:44:11.831
Now for those tribes that did use peyote,

807
00:44:11.831 --> 00:44:14.233
it's seen as a medicine, or had alcohol,

808
00:44:14.233 --> 00:44:16.333
there are very few tribes
in North America that had

809
00:44:16.333 --> 00:44:19.153
alcohol, there were more
in the south of the border,

810
00:44:19.153 --> 00:44:24.133
but even for all of those
tribes, it was very ceremonial

811
00:44:24.133 --> 00:44:27.133
so it limited then,
there was no such thing

812
00:44:27.133 --> 00:44:30.503
as social drinking and
drunkenness traditionally.

813
00:44:30.693 --> 00:44:34.633
To my knowledge among
the tribal communities,

814
00:44:34.633 --> 00:44:36.773
as far as I know, I'm
qualifying it because I don't

815
00:44:36.773 --> 00:44:40.433
know all tribes' cultures but...

816
00:44:40.433 --> 00:44:44.753
So we asked Doctor Eva
Folgelman, who I think

817
00:44:44.753 --> 00:44:47.173
I mentioned as a Jewish Holocaust child

818
00:44:47.173 --> 00:44:49.473
of survivors, a psychologist, a therapist,

819
00:44:49.473 --> 00:44:53.233
a clinician, author, and she's been doing

820
00:44:53.233 --> 00:44:54.793
training on working with children of

821
00:44:54.793 --> 00:44:56.753
Holocaust survivors and she was working

822
00:44:56.753 --> 00:44:58.873
at the Training Institute
for Mental Health

823
00:44:58.873 --> 00:45:01.693
in New York, and I had actually read

824
00:45:01.693 --> 00:45:03.873
one of her articles and then I saw that

825
00:45:03.873 --> 00:45:05.853
in a newspaper and I was like,

826
00:45:05.853 --> 00:45:07.433
"hey, this is good."

827
00:45:07.433 --> 00:45:09.633
I called up the Training
Institute, they gave me

828
00:45:09.633 --> 00:45:12.473
her professional number,
I told her who I was,

829
00:45:12.473 --> 00:45:13.713
what we were doing, I said

830
00:45:13.713 --> 00:45:15.333
"would you come to South Dakota

831
00:45:15.333 --> 00:45:17.293
and work with us?"

832
00:45:17.293 --> 00:45:21.313
I wanted to see if she knew
something that we didn't know

833
00:45:21.313 --> 00:45:23.633
that we were not already doing.

834
00:45:23.633 --> 00:45:26.233
She was very gracious, I sent her a lot

835
00:45:26.233 --> 00:45:27.673
of information, then I went to New York

836
00:45:27.673 --> 00:45:30.093
to meet with her and she came out

837
00:45:30.093 --> 00:45:33.173
to South Dakota and spent a day and a half

838
00:45:33.173 --> 00:45:37.013
with us and it was very cute.

839
00:45:37.013 --> 00:45:40.233
She said, she was with us, so she was like

840
00:45:40.233 --> 00:45:43.533
involved with the facilitator
training and about

841
00:45:43.533 --> 00:45:46.673
halfway through the
first day she said to me,

842
00:45:46.673 --> 00:45:49.093
"you guys are so nice to one another!

843
00:45:49.093 --> 00:45:51.293
You're not arguing, if
this was a Jewish group,

844
00:45:51.293 --> 00:45:52.993
we'd be arguing by now."

845
00:45:52.993 --> 00:45:54.433
(audience laughs)

846
00:45:54.433 --> 00:45:55.653
She made me laugh and I said,

847
00:45:55.653 --> 00:45:57.293
"well we're more indirect."

848
00:45:57.293 --> 00:46:00.533
It's kind of like we
kinda sock it to somebody

849
00:46:00.533 --> 00:46:04.553
but it's a little more
indirect sometimes but

850
00:46:04.553 --> 00:46:05.773
it was very helpful.

851
00:46:05.773 --> 00:46:08.953
Then she showed us a video
that she did on children of

852
00:46:08.953 --> 00:46:12.273
Holocaust survivors and a lot of our

853
00:46:12.273 --> 00:46:14.953
people and our facilitators really related

854
00:46:14.953 --> 00:46:18.333
to the same sort of emotional experiences

855
00:46:18.333 --> 00:46:21.193
and I'll talk about that shortly here,

856
00:46:21.193 --> 00:46:23.993
about the historical
trauma response features

857
00:46:23.993 --> 00:46:26.253
about the compensatory fantasies,

858
00:46:26.253 --> 00:46:28.043
the need to make up for the past.

859
00:46:29.413 --> 00:46:32.193
So her gift to us was that
we were doing everything

860
00:46:32.193 --> 00:46:37.033
she saw correct, but she
said we needed to write and

861
00:46:37.033 --> 00:46:39.753
make videos, and get the word out about

862
00:46:39.753 --> 00:46:41.973
our traumatic history because that's what

863
00:46:41.973 --> 00:46:44.023
the Holocaust community does.

864
00:46:44.473 --> 00:46:46.653
They do a lot of education and

865
00:46:46.653 --> 00:46:51.533
writing and getting it out there and our

866
00:46:51.533 --> 00:46:54.813
history is really pretty
subjugated in this country

867
00:46:54.813 --> 00:46:58.703
and we're ignored a lot so...

868
00:46:59.613 --> 00:47:02.093
I remember when the movie Lincoln came out

869
00:47:02.093 --> 00:47:03.953
I was not happy, I never saw the movie

870
00:47:03.953 --> 00:47:06.973
and I don't wanna see it
because, around the time

871
00:47:06.973 --> 00:47:10.213
that Lincoln signed the
Emancipation Proclamation,

872
00:47:10.213 --> 00:47:13.513
he signed an order to kill innocent Dakota

873
00:47:13.513 --> 00:47:15.103
in Mankato, Minnesota.

874
00:47:16.233 --> 00:47:18.553
And that's not talked about in history,

875
00:47:18.553 --> 00:47:23.413
nobody addresses that so those are those

876
00:47:23.413 --> 00:47:26.713
kinds of issues so we
prayed that this work

877
00:47:26.713 --> 00:47:30.813
would help our people and

878
00:47:30.813 --> 00:47:33.133
I think I already shared
this sort of pre-test

879
00:47:33.133 --> 00:47:36.013
and post-test measures, and then a sort of

880
00:47:36.013 --> 00:47:40.373
retrospective report about grief and how

881
00:47:40.373 --> 00:47:44.103
that was happened, how
people experienced that.

882
00:47:44.233 --> 00:47:47.073
At the time the mean age
was 43, sp those folks

883
00:47:47.073 --> 00:47:49.643
would be in their 60s now.

884
00:47:50.963 --> 00:47:54.074
And a great majority of
them were boarding school

885
00:47:54.074 --> 00:47:58.654
survivors and had a lot
of distance from the

886
00:47:58.654 --> 00:48:00.694
boarding school which meant they got to

887
00:48:00.694 --> 00:48:03.834
go home not very often and

888
00:48:03.834 --> 00:48:08.834
a lot of them reported negative
boarding school experiences

889
00:48:09.434 --> 00:48:14.434
including physical abuse
and a percentage of

890
00:48:15.585 --> 00:48:20.585
sexual abuse in the boarding
schools and of course a

891
00:48:20.835 --> 00:48:25.835
group that experiences
a lot of grief and loss.

892
00:48:27.915 --> 00:48:29.855
So I'm not gonna go through all this,

893
00:48:29.855 --> 00:48:32.215
this is some of that
just those early results

894
00:48:32.215 --> 00:48:34.955
and there's actually some
of this is written up

895
00:48:34.955 --> 00:48:39.235
in a Smith article that I did in 1998

896
00:48:39.235 --> 00:48:44.155
on the dissertation but I
wanted to point out that

897
00:48:44.155 --> 00:48:46.915
feeling responsible for
undoing the pain of the past

898
00:48:46.915 --> 00:48:51.035
that that reduced at the
end of the intervention and

899
00:48:51.035 --> 00:48:55.355
other sort of what we
consider negative affects

900
00:48:55.355 --> 00:48:59.095
reduced and evaluation so

901
00:48:59.095 --> 00:49:02.015
(speaks in foreign language)
is a Lakota word for

902
00:49:02.015 --> 00:49:05.475
white people and it's not
really very complimentary

903
00:49:05.475 --> 00:49:09.515
but I have to tell you,
it means takes the fat,

904
00:49:09.515 --> 00:49:10.445
which is greed.

905
00:49:10.715 --> 00:49:11.375
Greed.

906
00:49:11.375 --> 00:49:14.695
So but we put that up there,

907
00:49:14.695 --> 00:49:17.115
and there was actually a
more positive evaluation

908
00:49:17.115 --> 00:49:19.935
at the end of the
intervention which is showing

909
00:49:19.935 --> 00:49:20.835
some healing.

910
00:49:20.835 --> 00:49:25.475
We also had one European-American who

911
00:49:25.475 --> 00:49:29.675
said that she represents
almost all of western Europe

912
00:49:29.675 --> 00:49:31.735
in her ancestry and she loved to present

913
00:49:31.735 --> 00:49:34.195
about genocide and she was really cool and

914
00:49:34.195 --> 00:49:37.095
she was part of our team,
so we think that that

915
00:49:37.095 --> 00:49:39.695
could have had an impact
on some of that healing

916
00:49:39.695 --> 00:49:43.035
to have somebody who's a white person

917
00:49:43.035 --> 00:49:45.775
to talk about genocide is very validating

918
00:49:45.775 --> 00:49:49.955
and instills hope, like
okay they can understand

919
00:49:49.955 --> 00:49:50.945
this too.

920
00:49:51.535 --> 00:49:56.535
So I'm not gonna belabor
this but just in terms of the

921
00:49:57.695 --> 00:50:01.335
semantic differential, and
this I wanted to mention

922
00:50:01.335 --> 00:50:04.295
because it's interesting
that, sort of that there were

923
00:50:04.295 --> 00:50:06.855
gender differences and I
think there's some gender

924
00:50:06.855 --> 00:50:08.895
differences in processing
grief but there are

925
00:50:08.895 --> 00:50:12.535
also gender differences
in male and female roles,

926
00:50:12.535 --> 00:50:13.645
traditional roles.

927
00:50:14.215 --> 00:50:16.515
Women and children were never considered

928
00:50:16.515 --> 00:50:18.755
the property of men among the Lakota and

929
00:50:18.755 --> 00:50:21.935
domestic violence and child
abuse were not tolerated

930
00:50:21.935 --> 00:50:26.935
and could be punished by
banishment, physical punishment

931
00:50:27.995 --> 00:50:32.765
of the same kind that the
abuser meted out or death.

932
00:50:33.615 --> 00:50:38.315
So it was a pretty strong
taboo against physical abuse.

933
00:50:38.315 --> 00:50:40.895
Now we have problems because
of the boarding school

934
00:50:40.895 --> 00:50:43.255
influence and all things that
have happened where we do have

935
00:50:43.255 --> 00:50:46.075
domestic violence in our
communities and we have

936
00:50:46.075 --> 00:50:50.935
a lot of oppression going on but

937
00:50:50.935 --> 00:50:52.725
that's something I wanted to mention.

938
00:50:52.935 --> 00:50:55.615
But our men, the
traditional role, was as the

939
00:50:55.615 --> 00:50:58.185
warriors and the protectors of the people.

940
00:50:58.415 --> 00:51:01.335
And because of being
disarmed, they could not

941
00:51:01.335 --> 00:51:04.105
fulfill that at Wounded Knee.

942
00:51:04.555 --> 00:51:07.045
They were not able to protect the people.

943
00:51:07.295 --> 00:51:09.775
So they were not able
to enact their role so

944
00:51:09.775 --> 00:51:14.775
we felt like they had
sort of different issues

945
00:51:16.915 --> 00:51:21.915
or responses so what's
interesting is the last row

946
00:51:22.995 --> 00:51:24.785
in terms of joy.

947
00:51:25.055 --> 00:51:27.555
So the women, before
the intervention almost

948
00:51:27.555 --> 00:51:31.435
60% reported joyful in
general and this is just

949
00:51:31.435 --> 00:51:35.815
self-report, not a real
sophisticated kind of measure,

950
00:51:35.815 --> 00:51:38.035
but only 33% of the men.

951
00:51:38.035 --> 00:51:40.345
But you look at after the intervention.

952
00:51:40.955 --> 00:51:44.275
70% of the women felt more joyful,

953
00:51:44.275 --> 00:51:48.895
almost 71% and almost 87% of the men.

954
00:51:48.895 --> 00:51:51.245
So the men really skyrocketed.

955
00:51:51.615 --> 00:51:53.975
And I think part of it was
the way I explained it is

956
00:51:53.975 --> 00:51:56.755
we went through the history
of the Wounded Knee Massacre

957
00:51:56.755 --> 00:52:00.135
and all the details and the
boarding schools so that

958
00:52:00.135 --> 00:52:03.835
that the men heard the
true history about being

959
00:52:03.835 --> 00:52:06.315
disarmed and a lot of them were killed.

960
00:52:06.315 --> 00:52:08.977
It was more women and
children that were massacred

961
00:52:08.977 --> 00:52:12.107
than men because there were
more women and children present.

962
00:52:12.317 --> 00:52:14.717
And that the men, it was not their fault

963
00:52:14.717 --> 00:52:18.817
in other words and so it was helping with

964
00:52:18.817 --> 00:52:22.427
not internalizing that pain and trauma.

965
00:52:22.837 --> 00:52:26.997
Now interestingly, the
men experienced greater

966
00:52:26.997 --> 00:52:31.427
trauma in boarding schools
overall, especially sexual abuse.

967
00:52:32.417 --> 00:52:33.977
And that's pretty interesting.

968
00:52:33.977 --> 00:52:37.197
Now there happened to be more
full-blood men in the sample

969
00:52:37.197 --> 00:52:40.327
than women, that was just
the way it worked out.

970
00:52:40.337 --> 00:52:43.657
But the number wasn't
large enough to tease out

971
00:52:43.657 --> 00:52:46.917
how much was related to Indian phenotype,

972
00:52:46.917 --> 00:52:51.237
skin color and features, how
much was related to gender,

973
00:52:51.237 --> 00:52:54.857
and what was that about
but that's something that

974
00:52:54.857 --> 00:52:58.837
was pretty striking so we
have a high rate of that

975
00:52:58.837 --> 00:53:03.697
in our communities and at
the end of the intervention,

976
00:53:03.697 --> 00:53:08.177
which was really awesome
for me and I can't even

977
00:53:08.177 --> 00:53:09.467
put words to it.

978
00:53:11.867 --> 00:53:14.797
One of the Big Foot Memorial riders...

979
00:53:14.797 --> 00:53:16.674
Afterwards we were standing
in a circle and that was

980
00:53:16.674 --> 00:53:19.514
also the time that the
elder asked me to lead

981
00:53:19.514 --> 00:53:21.934
the people in this historical trauma work,

982
00:53:21.934 --> 00:53:24.414
but we were standing
in a circle at the end,

983
00:53:24.414 --> 00:53:27.054
and people just started
stepping into the circle,

984
00:53:27.054 --> 00:53:30.654
giving uninvited testimony
of their experience,

985
00:53:30.654 --> 00:53:31.684
it was awesome.

986
00:53:32.134 --> 00:53:34.854
And so one of the riders
said, "you know I sacrifice to

987
00:53:34.854 --> 00:53:38.074
wipe the tears of the
people, but until today

988
00:53:38.074 --> 00:53:40.064
no one had wiped my tears."

989
00:53:40.494 --> 00:53:43.174
So what we did at the
end of the intervention--

990
00:53:43.174 --> 00:53:46.034
So part of the intervention
was they broke up into pairs

991
00:53:46.034 --> 00:53:50.654
and shared kind of their
trauma and grief history

992
00:53:50.654 --> 00:53:53.494
in pairs, and kind of
processed with those pairs.

993
00:53:53.494 --> 00:53:56.774
So we had small and large
group processing and

994
00:53:56.774 --> 00:54:00.854
so they had a chance
to work with a partner.

995
00:54:00.854 --> 00:54:04.914
So and then at the end,
one of our healers gave us

996
00:54:04.914 --> 00:54:08.194
a wiping the tears exercise,
which was based on a

997
00:54:08.194 --> 00:54:13.194
wiping the tears ceremony, to
the Lakota grief resolution

998
00:54:13.574 --> 00:54:17.474
ceremony, and so we had the
person with their partners,

999
00:54:17.474 --> 00:54:21.914
they're facing one another
but everybody's in a circle so

1000
00:54:21.914 --> 00:54:25.054
you basically have two
circles, one facing out

1001
00:54:25.054 --> 00:54:29.114
one facing in, and you
each have a cup of water,

1002
00:54:29.114 --> 00:54:33.014
and you console the person
and you encourage them,

1003
00:54:33.014 --> 00:54:34.734
and then you give them water and the water

1004
00:54:34.734 --> 00:54:38.144
symbolizes replacing the
tears that have been shed.

1005
00:54:38.454 --> 00:54:41.353
And then while they're doing
that, we're singing and praying

1006
00:54:41.353 --> 00:54:45.953
and it's really a beautiful
thing that our healer gave us

1007
00:54:45.953 --> 00:54:48.253
'cause I wanted him to have people sort of

1008
00:54:48.253 --> 00:54:51.763
become relatives, in a sense,
to support one another.

1009
00:54:52.093 --> 00:54:55.103
And also to console one another.

1010
00:54:55.453 --> 00:54:58.913
So it was after that that
then this rider steps in

1011
00:54:58.913 --> 00:55:00.463
and says that.

1012
00:55:02.313 --> 00:55:07.013
So it really, for me, I got
back from this and I had

1013
00:55:07.013 --> 00:55:11.543
just taken a position at
the University of Denver

1014
00:55:11.543 --> 00:55:15.533
at that time on the faculty,
and I got back from this

1015
00:55:15.533 --> 00:55:19.083
(mumbles) experience I was
just like in another world.

1016
00:55:19.273 --> 00:55:21.973
And a faculty member came up to me, very

1017
00:55:21.973 --> 00:55:24.553
innocent being very
sweet, says, "how was your

1018
00:55:24.553 --> 00:55:26.203
data collection?"

1019
00:55:26.533 --> 00:55:29.633
And I was like, "oh my God, you can't

1020
00:55:29.633 --> 00:55:31.783
reduce this to data collection."

1021
00:55:31.853 --> 00:55:33.263
It was just jarring.

1022
00:55:33.633 --> 00:55:36.573
But I was still in this
other realm, it was just

1023
00:55:36.573 --> 00:55:39.033
an awesome experience, plus
being in the Black Hills

1024
00:55:39.033 --> 00:55:41.463
for all that time was just beautiful.

1025
00:55:42.013 --> 00:55:46.563
So the later development
of the historical trauma

1026
00:55:46.563 --> 00:55:50.273
just that I was on the faculty
at the University of Denver

1027
00:55:50.273 --> 00:55:52.333
and then I mentioned going to Columbia,

1028
00:55:52.333 --> 00:55:57.333
so all of these things
really just followed.

1029
00:55:59.133 --> 00:56:02.813
So the historical trauma
reponse features, I wanna talk

1030
00:56:02.813 --> 00:56:05.513
just briefly about that
and a few more things

1031
00:56:05.513 --> 00:56:08.243
before we open it up for questions.

1032
00:56:08.773 --> 00:56:13.773
So the historical trauma
response features would be a bear

1033
00:56:13.873 --> 00:56:15.883
to actually research.

1034
00:56:16.213 --> 00:56:19.133
There have been some people
that are attempting now

1035
00:56:19.133 --> 00:56:22.083
to do some research.

1036
00:56:22.813 --> 00:56:25.773
My colleague and friend
Doctor Karina Walters

1037
00:56:25.773 --> 00:56:30.533
at the University of
Washington, has been trying

1038
00:56:30.533 --> 00:56:32.023
to tackle some of that.

1039
00:56:33.193 --> 00:56:37.393
Also Doctor Les Whitbeck
who's non-Native but

1040
00:56:37.393 --> 00:56:42.213
he's at University of Nebraska
and was very respectful

1041
00:56:42.213 --> 00:56:44.853
and developed the historical loss scale,

1042
00:56:44.853 --> 00:56:47.763
and this historical loss and
associated symptoms scale.

1043
00:56:48.173 --> 00:56:50.533
And then while I was at
Columbia, I started developing

1044
00:56:50.533 --> 00:56:52.633
the indigenous people's survey, which is

1045
00:56:52.633 --> 00:56:54.673
really not a good name
'cause it's not a survey

1046
00:56:54.673 --> 00:56:59.673
it's really a instrument that
when you give it to someone

1047
00:57:01.933 --> 00:57:05.653
they should be with you
because it's really more of a

1048
00:57:05.653 --> 00:57:08.133
clinician administered instrument.

1049
00:57:08.133 --> 00:57:10.653
I mean they can take it, but it could be

1050
00:57:10.653 --> 00:57:13.993
triggering because it
asks about trauma history

1051
00:57:13.993 --> 00:57:16.253
and grief history, it kinda puts a lot of

1052
00:57:16.253 --> 00:57:19.933
things together, includes some
other structured measures on

1053
00:57:19.933 --> 00:57:22.573
looking at grief and trauma responses so

1054
00:57:22.573 --> 00:57:25.893
this is the first time we're
using it in the NIMH study

1055
00:57:25.893 --> 00:57:29.593
but there's a group in California at...

1056
00:57:29.593 --> 00:57:32.673
Tribal group working with
Stanford and they're doing a

1057
00:57:32.673 --> 00:57:35.933
diabetes intervention and
they're using pieces of that

1058
00:57:35.933 --> 00:57:37.933
indigenous peoples survey
so there's quite a bit

1059
00:57:37.933 --> 00:57:40.113
of interest in it and one of the things

1060
00:57:40.113 --> 00:57:42.653
is it doesn't just
include American Indians

1061
00:57:42.653 --> 00:57:46.913
Alaska Native, it includes
First Nations folks and people

1062
00:57:46.913 --> 00:57:49.663
from Latin America too.

1063
00:57:49.693 --> 00:57:51.933
So we're asking about indigenous identity

1064
00:57:51.933 --> 00:57:54.093
and then there's sort
of separate sections for

1065
00:57:54.093 --> 00:57:56.613
the history because the
US and Canadian history

1066
00:57:56.613 --> 00:58:00.033
is more similar for
Native folks than from the

1067
00:58:00.033 --> 00:58:02.583
history in Mexico,
Central and South America.

1068
00:58:02.773 --> 00:58:04.913
So we just sort of separate
it because there's another

1069
00:58:04.913 --> 00:58:09.333
layer of colonization for people from the

1070
00:58:09.333 --> 00:58:11.613
Mexico, Central and South
Americas so it's the

1071
00:58:11.613 --> 00:58:14.693
original Spanish conquest but
then especially if they've

1072
00:58:14.693 --> 00:58:18.353
moved here to the US, then
they have the migration

1073
00:58:18.353 --> 00:58:22.503
trauma and the other kind of
oppression that's occurred.

1074
00:58:22.653 --> 00:58:26.573
So I actually had some
students at Columbia,

1075
00:58:26.573 --> 00:58:28.933
and I wanna acknowledge and recognize one

1076
00:58:28.933 --> 00:58:33.393
Maribel Perez who's a licensed
clinical social worker now

1077
00:58:33.393 --> 00:58:37.893
who is a indigenous Nahua
woman from Mexico originally

1078
00:58:37.893 --> 00:58:40.373
and she was one of the people.

1079
00:58:40.373 --> 00:58:45.373
And Doctor Jennifer Elkins
who is a graduate of Columbia

1080
00:58:45.893 --> 00:58:47.733
and she worked with me
as a doctoral student

1081
00:58:47.733 --> 00:58:50.393
and she's now at the University of Georgia

1082
00:58:50.393 --> 00:58:53.773
and we're still collaborating on articles

1083
00:58:53.773 --> 00:58:57.073
and she basically volunteers
'cause I didn't have any money

1084
00:58:57.073 --> 00:59:01.784
to pay her, so she's been
wonderful so I have some

1085
00:59:01.784 --> 00:59:03.324
wonderful colleagues.

1086
00:59:03.324 --> 00:59:07.864
Her background is Jewish-American so

1087
00:59:07.864 --> 00:59:09.954
I just like to acknowledge people.

1088
00:59:10.204 --> 00:59:13.744
So some of these things are difficult to

1089
00:59:13.744 --> 00:59:17.104
operationalize, but one thing
that Karina Walters found

1090
00:59:17.104 --> 00:59:19.264
in some of her work is
that there does seem to be

1091
00:59:19.264 --> 00:59:22.804
an association with historical
trauma response features,

1092
00:59:22.804 --> 00:59:27.724
basically she also calls it
the colonial trauma response,

1093
00:59:27.724 --> 00:59:32.724
and things like PTSD symptoms
and other kinds of symptoms so

1094
00:59:33.834 --> 00:59:37.634
a lot of these are gonna
be evident to people here

1095
00:59:37.634 --> 00:59:40.274
but I do wanna mention the
psychic numbing which is

1096
00:59:40.274 --> 00:59:43.494
basically shutting down all the feelings

1097
00:59:43.494 --> 00:59:45.374
'cause you're trying to shut down the pain

1098
00:59:45.374 --> 00:59:47.394
but then you sort of go through life

1099
00:59:47.394 --> 00:59:49.434
feeling numb and I've
seen that quite a bit

1100
00:59:49.434 --> 00:59:50.564
in our community.

1101
00:59:50.954 --> 00:59:53.754
The fixation to trauma
which we used to think of

1102
00:59:53.754 --> 00:59:57.214
as more just psychological, being attached

1103
00:59:57.214 --> 01:00:00.074
to the trauma because it's familiar

1104
01:00:00.074 --> 01:00:03.784
but we know now that there's
brain chemistry involved.

1105
01:00:04.114 --> 01:00:07.454
So if you, and I explain
to people like you look

1106
01:00:07.454 --> 01:00:10.834
through a trauma lens, so if
you think of these glasses

1107
01:00:10.834 --> 01:00:14.334
say as trauma lenses, and I put them on,

1108
01:00:14.334 --> 01:00:16.954
then everything that I look at is fitered

1109
01:00:16.954 --> 01:00:20.064
through these lenses, is
filtered through the trauma.

1110
01:00:20.814 --> 01:00:24.814
And related to that also
is the hypervigilance.

1111
01:00:24.814 --> 01:00:27.034
Hypervigilance is staying on guard,

1112
01:00:27.034 --> 01:00:28.334
being in heightened state of alert

1113
01:00:28.334 --> 01:00:29.915
and is waiting for the other shoe to drop.

1114
01:00:29.915 --> 01:00:33.135
It's talked a lot about
in twelve step meetings,

1115
01:00:33.135 --> 01:00:35.955
in adult children of
alcoholics meetings because

1116
01:00:35.955 --> 01:00:39.035
a good analogy is a kid
going into an alcoholic home

1117
01:00:39.035 --> 01:00:42.835
and just being on guard
and then all of those

1118
01:00:42.835 --> 01:00:46.075
cortisol levels starts
going, the blood pressure,

1119
01:00:46.075 --> 01:00:49.055
the stomach juices
start turning, the pulse

1120
01:00:49.055 --> 01:00:51.035
heart rate goes up,
and all of those things

1121
01:00:51.035 --> 01:00:54.685
which over time is very
damaging for your body.

1122
01:00:55.975 --> 01:00:58.055
So that that's the hypervigilance.

1123
01:00:58.055 --> 01:01:01.395
So you're looking through
these trauma lenses

1124
01:01:01.395 --> 01:01:05.295
and coming here tonight,
if you're a person who's

1125
01:01:05.295 --> 01:01:08.475
been traumatized a lot and harmed,

1126
01:01:08.475 --> 01:01:10.275
you come into the room and you size it up

1127
01:01:10.275 --> 01:01:12.315
and you find out where the door is,

1128
01:01:12.315 --> 01:01:14.015
I wanna sit near the door so I can get out

1129
01:01:14.015 --> 01:01:16.315
and now just 'cause you're
a midlife person and you

1130
01:01:16.315 --> 01:01:19.955
gotta get to the bathroom,
it's because you wanna escape

1131
01:01:19.955 --> 01:01:21.945
you gotta keep yourself safe.

1132
01:01:22.435 --> 01:01:25.535
And somebody who's not been
traumatized so much is like

1133
01:01:25.535 --> 01:01:28.755
ooh this is exciting, I
wanna see who's here and

1134
01:01:28.755 --> 01:01:32.145
you wanna sit next to
people you wanna visit with

1135
01:01:32.145 --> 01:01:35.495
or sit so you can see better,
but it has nothing to do

1136
01:01:35.495 --> 01:01:37.305
with keeping yourself safe.

1137
01:01:38.035 --> 01:01:41.455
So that those are the kinds
of things that we deal with

1138
01:01:41.455 --> 01:01:44.485
and how many of you have
ever been in a car accident?

1139
01:01:44.635 --> 01:01:46.125
That's another good example.

1140
01:01:46.215 --> 01:01:47.225
Lot of people.

1141
01:01:47.375 --> 01:01:49.435
So New Mexico's not the only place with

1142
01:01:49.435 --> 01:01:54.435
a lot of car accidents but so

1143
01:01:55.095 --> 01:01:58.895
I had a fender bender,
which was very minor but

1144
01:01:58.895 --> 01:02:01.415
my daughter was quite a bit younger then

1145
01:02:01.415 --> 01:02:03.355
and she was sitting in
the passenger's seat

1146
01:02:03.355 --> 01:02:05.855
and somebody came from the
right trying to cut across

1147
01:02:05.855 --> 01:02:08.725
very illegally to get to the post office.

1148
01:02:10.085 --> 01:02:15.085
And so the car came and hit
the front right fender and

1149
01:02:15.755 --> 01:02:19.335
she was fine, I was fine,
and this was in Denver,

1150
01:02:19.335 --> 01:02:20.345
the police came.

1151
01:02:21.155 --> 01:02:23.655
And then the police asked
us, it was raining, asked us

1152
01:02:23.655 --> 01:02:25.855
to both come and sit in the police car.

1153
01:02:25.855 --> 01:02:27.955
The guy who hit me and me, and I thought,

1154
01:02:27.955 --> 01:02:31.035
oh no I'm gonna get blamed,
I'm gonna get the ticket,

1155
01:02:31.035 --> 01:02:33.595
which is another thing about sort of a

1156
01:02:33.595 --> 01:02:36.625
hypervigilance but related
to microaggressions.

1157
01:02:36.855 --> 01:02:39.425
How many of you have
heard of microaggressions?

1158
01:02:40.035 --> 01:02:40.745
Yeah.

1159
01:02:40.855 --> 01:02:41.905
Lot of people.

1160
01:02:42.075 --> 01:02:45.035
So expecting that the
police are gonna blame me

1161
01:02:45.035 --> 01:02:49.495
because the guy was white,
thank God he was honest,

1162
01:02:49.495 --> 01:02:51.975
and he said, "I tried to race her

1163
01:02:51.975 --> 01:02:53.945
to get across to the post office."

1164
01:02:54.575 --> 01:02:58.115
Across like six lanes of traffic,

1165
01:02:58.115 --> 01:03:00.345
on a rainy busy morning.

1166
01:03:01.115 --> 01:03:04.265
So he said, "okay ma'am
you're free to leave now."

1167
01:03:04.855 --> 01:03:09.855
But it's interesting because
so we have this hypervigilance

1168
01:03:10.395 --> 01:03:11.875
for lots of reasons.

1169
01:03:11.875 --> 01:03:16.875
I already mentioned sort of
a compensatory fantasies and

1170
01:03:17.115 --> 01:03:19.865
then related to that is the loyalty.

1171
01:03:20.275 --> 01:03:22.355
And Doctor Fogelman talks about loyalty

1172
01:03:22.355 --> 01:03:25.405
to the ancestral suffering
and to the deceased.

1173
01:03:25.555 --> 01:03:28.875
And if we identify with the
suffering of our ancestors

1174
01:03:28.875 --> 01:03:31.855
instead of their strength, then
remaning loyal to them means

1175
01:03:31.855 --> 01:03:34.895
that we focus on suffering
in our own lives,

1176
01:03:34.895 --> 01:03:36.795
creating suffering in our own lives,

1177
01:03:36.795 --> 01:03:39.915
and that really resonated for me because

1178
01:03:39.915 --> 01:03:42.555
I think a lof of us do that and

1179
01:03:42.555 --> 01:03:46.035
we kind of feel like
we can't be very vital

1180
01:03:46.035 --> 01:03:49.695
or happy or alive and vital

1181
01:03:49.695 --> 01:03:53.615
because we're somehow betraying
the memory of our people

1182
01:03:53.615 --> 01:03:55.155
that have suffered so much.

1183
01:03:55.155 --> 01:03:57.795
But our ancestors don't want us to suffer,

1184
01:03:57.795 --> 01:03:59.935
they wanted us to be
happy and they sacrificed

1185
01:03:59.935 --> 01:04:02.755
a lot so we could survive.

1186
01:04:02.755 --> 01:04:07.275
So we also kind of owe
it to them to be vital

1187
01:04:07.275 --> 01:04:09.155
and happy and I'm preaching to myself

1188
01:04:09.155 --> 01:04:12.265
as I'm saying that too.

1189
01:04:12.415 --> 01:04:16.015
But I won't go through this,
but it's just that other things

1190
01:04:16.015 --> 01:04:19.635
are related to the
historical trauma response.

1191
01:04:19.635 --> 01:04:23.735
Depression, prolonged
or complicated grief,

1192
01:04:23.735 --> 01:04:27.195
but the historical trauma
and unresolved grief

1193
01:04:27.195 --> 01:04:32.195
is not just for sort
of within your lifespan

1194
01:04:32.395 --> 01:04:36.995
but is generational, so
sort of preoccupation with

1195
01:04:36.995 --> 01:04:41.535
ancestors lost in the
past and their suffering

1196
01:04:41.535 --> 01:04:44.035
and kind of yearning for
them and pining for them

1197
01:04:44.035 --> 01:04:48.095
and I think there are
tribal cultural differences

1198
01:04:48.095 --> 01:04:51.095
and I think there's some tribes maybe who

1199
01:04:51.095 --> 01:04:53.855
just their culture is
maybe more predisposed

1200
01:04:53.855 --> 01:04:57.255
to kind of hanging on
to the ancestral past

1201
01:04:57.255 --> 01:04:59.025
or the history.

1202
01:04:59.115 --> 01:05:03.895
Like in the Dakotas, it
has been pretty notoriously

1203
01:05:03.895 --> 01:05:08.035
racist and difficult, and the
history is difficult because

1204
01:05:08.035 --> 01:05:13.035
we had the Battle of Little
Bighorn, which is technically

1205
01:05:13.135 --> 01:05:15.875
actually in Montana but
that's part of the area.

1206
01:05:15.875 --> 01:05:17.785
We had all of this kind of history.

1207
01:05:17.895 --> 01:05:20.545
Very sort of polarized communities.

1208
01:05:21.875 --> 01:05:26.625
So that I think those kind of
things also make a difference.

1209
01:05:28.215 --> 01:05:32.795
I also think that tribal
cultures need to think about

1210
01:05:32.795 --> 01:05:37.195
what are their traditional
grief practices that

1211
01:05:37.195 --> 01:05:40.535
I know for our people, for the Lakota,

1212
01:05:40.535 --> 01:05:43.245
when a close relative
dies we cut our hair.

1213
01:05:43.755 --> 01:05:46.475
And traditionally, that's
the only time we cut our hair

1214
01:05:46.475 --> 01:05:49.535
but now we're modern so we get
different kinds of hairstyles

1215
01:05:49.535 --> 01:05:53.215
and but that that is
symbolizes a loss of a part

1216
01:05:53.215 --> 01:05:54.325
of the self.

1217
01:05:54.855 --> 01:05:57.895
And that so that, to me, is very symbolic

1218
01:05:57.895 --> 01:06:00.455
of the quality of attachment
so I think we might have

1219
01:06:00.455 --> 01:06:03.335
some different kinds of attachment styles

1220
01:06:03.335 --> 01:06:05.775
and you know Freud's paper on mourning

1221
01:06:05.775 --> 01:06:09.575
and melancholia talked about the more--

1222
01:06:09.575 --> 01:06:12.475
Sort of almost like a total decathexis or

1223
01:06:12.475 --> 01:06:16.975
removal of attachment to the lost person

1224
01:06:16.975 --> 01:06:20.765
or the lost object, as
it's called clinically.

1225
01:06:21.395 --> 01:06:24.055
As kind of a removal
of that is a resolution

1226
01:06:24.055 --> 01:06:25.185
of mourning,

1227
01:06:25.935 --> 01:06:28.595
And before that process
there's identification

1228
01:06:28.595 --> 01:06:31.715
with the person who's loss of
sometimes you'll see people

1229
01:06:31.715 --> 01:06:35.505
start doing things like the
person who lost, or mannerisms

1230
01:06:35.505 --> 01:06:38.857
or even developing symptoms of
their illness, it's all part

1231
01:06:38.857 --> 01:06:40.647
of the grief literature.

1232
01:06:41.257 --> 01:06:43.857
But I think that with...

1233
01:06:43.857 --> 01:06:48.747
I don't think that that fully
describes anybody, actually.

1234
01:06:48.877 --> 01:06:51.277
I don't think none of us
ever really fully removed

1235
01:06:51.277 --> 01:06:53.287
that attachment to our loved ones.

1236
01:06:53.477 --> 01:06:56.117
I don't think that the
mainstream grief practices

1237
01:06:56.117 --> 01:06:59.527
help the mainstream culture either here.

1238
01:06:59.737 --> 01:07:03.737
The mainstream culture is you're lucky

1239
01:07:03.737 --> 01:07:06.577
if you get three to five
days of funeral leave,

1240
01:07:06.577 --> 01:07:08.657
and it depends on the relationship

1241
01:07:08.657 --> 01:07:10.397
and then you're expected
to go back to work like

1242
01:07:10.397 --> 01:07:11.687
nothing happened.

1243
01:07:12.437 --> 01:07:15.317
So in the old days, our people would---

1244
01:07:15.317 --> 01:07:17.377
If you saw somebody with short hair,

1245
01:07:17.377 --> 01:07:19.337
you knew they were in mourning.

1246
01:07:19.337 --> 01:07:21.797
There was a period of
mourning of about a year

1247
01:07:21.797 --> 01:07:23.417
that you were supposed to observe,

1248
01:07:23.417 --> 01:07:25.637
you weren't supposed
to dance and all kinds

1249
01:07:25.637 --> 01:07:29.497
of things like that that
honored that process

1250
01:07:29.497 --> 01:07:31.517
and now everything's
sort of rush rush rush

1251
01:07:31.517 --> 01:07:33.167
and you just get on with it.

1252
01:07:33.297 --> 01:07:35.667
And I don't think that's
healthy for anyone

1253
01:07:35.667 --> 01:07:39.714
so I think we have to
rethink how we deal with

1254
01:07:39.714 --> 01:07:44.714
grief and loss in our culture,

1255
01:07:44.854 --> 01:07:48.244
and on our general culture.

1256
01:07:49.514 --> 01:07:53.045
Other relevant terms, and
all of this is Anna Freud's

1257
01:07:53.045 --> 01:07:55.745
identification with the
aggressor, and Paulo Freire's

1258
01:07:55.745 --> 01:08:00.385
internalized oppression so
which happened to our people

1259
01:08:00.385 --> 01:08:05.365
that we can act those
things out and I've already

1260
01:08:05.365 --> 01:08:08.205
mentioned this in terms
of the microaggression.

1261
01:08:08.205 --> 01:08:11.505
There's also a related term
is percieved discrimination

1262
01:08:11.505 --> 01:08:14.355
which has been associated
with increased depression.

1263
01:08:14.985 --> 01:08:16.565
So those things are real and

1264
01:08:16.565 --> 01:08:17.855
they're very important.

1265
01:08:18.085 --> 01:08:23.085
So this is fast forward
to the current study and

1266
01:08:25.085 --> 01:08:26.705
this is our...

1267
01:08:26.705 --> 01:08:29.785
Doesn't show up quite what the white is

1268
01:08:29.785 --> 01:08:32.565
but that's transcending the trauma there.

1269
01:08:32.565 --> 01:08:34.285
So we start with the

1270
01:08:34.285 --> 01:08:36.185
Eva Fogelman uses the terminology

1271
01:08:36.185 --> 01:08:37.785
confrontation with the past.

1272
01:08:37.785 --> 01:08:39.985
We were already doing
that but I like that,

1273
01:08:39.985 --> 01:08:43.185
how she says that and so
I like to acknowledge her

1274
01:08:43.185 --> 01:08:45.425
and understanding how
trauma affects the brain

1275
01:08:45.425 --> 01:08:48.165
and the body and affects
us releasing the pain and

1276
01:08:48.165 --> 01:08:51.525
that's through the various exercises

1277
01:08:51.525 --> 01:08:54.905
and sort of cathartic
release and then transcending

1278
01:08:54.905 --> 01:08:57.645
the trauma and at the center is the

1279
01:08:57.645 --> 01:09:02.145
return to the sacred path,
and I've already pretty much

1280
01:09:02.145 --> 01:09:05.485
described that so the early research was

1281
01:09:05.485 --> 01:09:08.325
basically finding, which I
showed some of those other

1282
01:09:08.325 --> 01:09:12.045
slides, but that increase
in joy and decrease

1283
01:09:12.045 --> 01:09:15.465
in guilt and a reduction in a
sense of feeling responsible

1284
01:09:15.465 --> 01:09:17.515
to undo the painful past.

1285
01:09:18.025 --> 01:09:20.905
And then we apply this
to working with parents

1286
01:09:20.905 --> 01:09:25.245
in parenting interventions and

1287
01:09:25.245 --> 01:09:28.025
integrated it with a
model, this was through a

1288
01:09:28.025 --> 01:09:32.825
SAMHSA grant, that was
a woman who's no longer

1289
01:09:32.825 --> 01:09:35.485
alive, Doctor Marylin Steele,
who's an African-American

1290
01:09:35.485 --> 01:09:39.145
psychologist from California,
and she had a model

1291
01:09:39.145 --> 01:09:42.705
called Strengthening Multi-Ethnic
Families and Communities

1292
01:09:42.705 --> 01:09:43.945
and it was very good.

1293
01:09:44.945 --> 01:09:47.085
In the SAMHSA project we were limited to

1294
01:09:47.085 --> 01:09:50.345
certain kinds of things
that we could choose from

1295
01:09:50.345 --> 01:09:53.685
and that year, the
cohort, most of the Native

1296
01:09:53.685 --> 01:09:58.025
and Latino grantees
gravitated towards her model

1297
01:09:58.025 --> 01:10:01.525
and it was really really interesting.

1298
01:10:01.525 --> 01:10:06.525
She was very very kind and
so we had a Lakota parenting

1299
01:10:07.585 --> 01:10:12.585
model where we focused on the
historical trauma intervention

1300
01:10:12.985 --> 01:10:16.905
and then our traditional
parenting skills which actually

1301
01:10:16.905 --> 01:10:18.975
have very good protective factors.

1302
01:10:20.345 --> 01:10:22.325
Because our children our considered sacred

1303
01:10:22.325 --> 01:10:24.595
and placed at the center of the nation.

1304
01:10:24.785 --> 01:10:28.115
So we're traditionally a
very child-centered culture.

1305
01:10:29.585 --> 01:10:32.916
So in doing qualitative
evaluation of that,

1306
01:10:32.916 --> 01:10:36.956
the parents felt more competent
as parents at the end,

1307
01:10:36.956 --> 01:10:38.970
increased use of traditional
language, which we

1308
01:10:38.970 --> 01:10:41.330
weren't even expecting but
we used a lot of traditional

1309
01:10:41.330 --> 01:10:46.270
terms, and they not only
reported an improved relationship

1310
01:10:46.270 --> 01:10:48.850
with their children,
their perception of that,

1311
01:10:48.850 --> 01:10:50.910
but also with their parents, grandparents,

1312
01:10:50.910 --> 01:10:52.820
and their extended family.

1313
01:10:53.150 --> 01:10:55.210
And increased communication
with their parents

1314
01:10:55.210 --> 01:10:57.490
and grandparents about historical trauma

1315
01:10:57.490 --> 01:11:00.230
and their past boarding school experiences

1316
01:11:00.230 --> 01:11:02.910
and also increased pride in being Lakota,

1317
01:11:02.910 --> 01:11:06.910
valuing one's own culture
and our seven laws

1318
01:11:06.910 --> 01:11:08.690
which I mentioned before
include things like

1319
01:11:08.690 --> 01:11:13.640
generosity, compassion,
and humility and respect.

1320
01:11:14.870 --> 01:11:19.630
So this current study is
started in 2013, we're just

1321
01:11:19.630 --> 01:11:22.110
started our third year,
which it's unbelievable,

1322
01:11:22.110 --> 01:11:24.370
it's a three year study,
it's a pilot study,

1323
01:11:24.370 --> 01:11:28.070
clinical trial, and feasibility
study and that's what

1324
01:11:28.070 --> 01:11:31.210
the mechanism is an R34 and

1325
01:11:31.210 --> 01:11:33.590
funded by the National
Institute of Mental Health.

1326
01:11:33.590 --> 01:11:36.490
We're very blessed that
we have an awesome program

1327
01:11:36.490 --> 01:11:40.130
officer who's very hands
on and involved with us.

1328
01:11:40.130 --> 01:11:43.350
We have a really great
studying monitoring team

1329
01:11:43.350 --> 01:11:46.810
that include two of my former colleagues

1330
01:11:46.810 --> 01:11:51.050
from Columbia that are
part of the medical school

1331
01:11:51.050 --> 01:11:53.280
in New York State Psychiatric Institute.

1332
01:11:53.730 --> 01:11:57.670
So sort of the rationale before it is

1333
01:11:57.670 --> 01:12:00.570
the lack of empirically
supported treatment models

1334
01:12:00.570 --> 01:12:04.090
for Native people and
that we've been sort of

1335
01:12:04.090 --> 01:12:07.310
forced to use models
that we haven't developed

1336
01:12:07.310 --> 01:12:09.480
and aren't developed with us in mind.

1337
01:12:10.090 --> 01:12:12.810
One of my colleagues,
Doctor Jeanne Miranda,

1338
01:12:12.810 --> 01:12:17.190
who is in California, has
done a lot of disparities

1339
01:12:17.190 --> 01:12:20.570
research, she was on the
original Surgeon General's Report

1340
01:12:20.570 --> 01:12:23.610
several years ago about
the status of minority

1341
01:12:23.610 --> 01:12:25.180
mental health.

1342
01:12:25.790 --> 01:12:29.770
She reported the severe
under representation of

1343
01:12:29.770 --> 01:12:32.710
not only Native people funded by NIMH

1344
01:12:32.710 --> 01:12:37.550
but NIMH studies that
included Native people.

1345
01:12:37.550 --> 01:12:40.270
There were only, I don't
remember the number

1346
01:12:40.270 --> 01:12:42.670
but it was appalling out
of millions of people.

1347
01:12:42.670 --> 01:12:45.230
I'm thinking it was
something like 52 or 76

1348
01:12:45.230 --> 01:12:46.513
but I don't want you to quote me on it

1349
01:12:46.513 --> 01:12:47.993
because I should've double checked.

1350
01:12:47.993 --> 01:12:50.553
It could be a little
higher than that but it's

1351
01:12:50.553 --> 01:12:51.843
extremely low.

1352
01:12:52.273 --> 01:12:54.973
So she asserted that we have no evidence

1353
01:12:54.973 --> 01:12:57.513
that these evidence-based
practices empirically

1354
01:12:57.513 --> 01:13:00.013
supported treatments work
with Native communities

1355
01:13:00.013 --> 01:13:02.263
because they have not been
included in the research.

1356
01:13:03.113 --> 01:13:05.873
And my sort of beef is
we have our own culture,

1357
01:13:05.873 --> 01:13:07.313
we have our own wisdom.

1358
01:13:07.313 --> 01:13:09.393
We have our own traditional practices,

1359
01:13:09.393 --> 01:13:11.293
we have our own practices going on in

1360
01:13:11.293 --> 01:13:14.773
lots of tribal communities
and also with other communites

1361
01:13:14.773 --> 01:13:18.413
of color and other
groups, and that are based

1362
01:13:18.413 --> 01:13:20.469
on that wisdom.

1363
01:13:21.059 --> 01:13:24.979
And I feel like the
funding should be given to

1364
01:13:24.979 --> 01:13:28.839
support the development of
evidence based on those models

1365
01:13:28.839 --> 01:13:32.239
instead of imposing a model that's been

1366
01:13:32.239 --> 01:13:36.999
developed with basically non-Native

1367
01:13:36.999 --> 01:13:41.999
or non-persons of color,
mainstream culture

1368
01:13:43.899 --> 01:13:46.799
at NIH that are more fluent cultures and

1369
01:13:46.799 --> 01:13:48.639
that's sort of the
stereotype, I'm generalizing

1370
01:13:48.639 --> 01:13:52.599
a little bit but I think
to make the point so

1371
01:13:52.599 --> 01:13:55.439
we have our own models and we need help

1372
01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:58.289
in developing the evidence base for them.

1373
01:13:59.199 --> 01:14:02.059
And that would be ideal, I think

1374
01:14:02.059 --> 01:14:05.439
instead of having to
culturally adapt models.

1375
01:14:05.439 --> 01:14:07.859
And the idea of cultural
adaptation is usually

1376
01:14:07.859 --> 01:14:11.499
very superficial, like you
put nice Indian designs

1377
01:14:11.499 --> 01:14:14.019
on the manual and you
serve some fried bread

1378
01:14:14.019 --> 01:14:16.179
and have a drum one night and that's

1379
01:14:16.179 --> 01:14:17.749
cultural adaptation.

1380
01:14:18.619 --> 01:14:21.539
And it's not coming from the core

1381
01:14:21.539 --> 01:14:24.439
and the values and the world view

1382
01:14:24.439 --> 01:14:26.869
which can be different.

1383
01:14:29.939 --> 01:14:34.939
So we need those kinds of interventions.

1384
01:14:37.379 --> 01:14:41.619
So the design for this
current NIMH study is taking

1385
01:14:41.619 --> 01:14:44.259
group in a personal
psychotherapy and combining it

1386
01:14:44.259 --> 01:14:46.479
with the historical trauma and unresolved

1387
01:14:46.479 --> 01:14:48.029
grief intervention.

1388
01:14:49.139 --> 01:14:53.119
And it's random assignment to either

1389
01:14:53.119 --> 01:14:57.759
IPT only or the combined model and

1390
01:14:57.759 --> 01:15:01.799
into tribal sites but in
different culture areas

1391
01:15:01.799 --> 01:15:04.369
and one's urban and one's reservation.

1392
01:15:04.999 --> 01:15:07.859
And so we train clinicians in the model

1393
01:15:07.859 --> 01:15:12.379
and train tribal college
students and graduates

1394
01:15:12.379 --> 01:15:16.959
and it's out-patient group treatment,

1395
01:15:16.959 --> 01:15:20.179
twelve sessions and then we'd collect data

1396
01:15:20.179 --> 01:15:24.299
at different time points
and we wanna develop

1397
01:15:24.299 --> 01:15:29.299
a multi-site study, larger,
that's the next thing so

1398
01:15:31.259 --> 01:15:33.859
we do some qualitative interviews and

1399
01:15:33.859 --> 01:15:36.359
the verbal feedback, 'cause
we don't have any of the data

1400
01:15:36.359 --> 01:15:39.739
analyzed yet to tell you the results,

1401
01:15:39.739 --> 01:15:42.839
but the verbal feedback
from the participants is the

1402
01:15:42.839 --> 01:15:46.039
perceived helpfulness and the clinicians

1403
01:15:46.039 --> 01:15:49.659
who are delivering the
intervention talk about

1404
01:15:49.659 --> 01:15:54.659
how they really feel that
they see changes in the people

1405
01:15:56.399 --> 01:15:59.839
and people are glowing and
one woman in particular

1406
01:15:59.839 --> 01:16:03.979
that is an older woman, who
I think I mentioned earlier,

1407
01:16:03.979 --> 01:16:06.359
was a boarding school survivor.

1408
01:16:06.359 --> 01:16:08.619
Had never had a chance to talk about

1409
01:16:08.619 --> 01:16:10.919
her boarding school trauma before

1410
01:16:10.919 --> 01:16:15.469
and felt very empowered to do so.

1411
01:16:15.959 --> 01:16:20.959
So this slide is just sort
of some of the measures,

1412
01:16:21.119 --> 01:16:22.619
I'm not gonna go through
all of that but we

1413
01:16:22.619 --> 01:16:24.459
do use the Hamilton Depression Scale,

1414
01:16:24.459 --> 01:16:26.909
which is used a lot with IPT studies.

1415
01:16:27.919 --> 01:16:32.099
And we also use the Inventory
of Complicated Grief

1416
01:16:32.099 --> 01:16:37.099
and PCL which is for
PTSD symptoms and then

1417
01:16:38.619 --> 01:16:42.639
Les Whitbeck's Historical Loss
and Associated Symptoms Scale

1418
01:16:42.639 --> 01:16:47.639
along with looking at PHQ 9
for depression, which a lot of

1419
01:16:48.059 --> 01:16:50.829
Indian health service clinics are using.

1420
01:16:51.059 --> 01:16:56.059
So in conclusion, again
takini being rebirth and

1421
01:16:57.339 --> 01:17:00.339
having hope through the
historical trauma intervention,

1422
01:17:00.339 --> 01:17:02.619
this is from that same traditional
(speaks foreign language)

1423
01:17:02.619 --> 01:17:05.979
elder's council booklet, and it said,

1424
01:17:05.979 --> 01:17:07.939
"let a hundred drums gather.

1425
01:17:07.939 --> 01:17:09.999
It must be a time of
celebration of living,

1426
01:17:09.999 --> 01:17:12.539
of rebuilding and of moving on.

1427
01:17:12.539 --> 01:17:14.619
Our warriors will sing a new song,

1428
01:17:14.619 --> 01:17:16.879
a song of a new beginning,
a song of victory.

1429
01:17:16.879 --> 01:17:19.339
Let our warriors sing clear
and loud so the heartbeat

1430
01:17:19.339 --> 01:17:21.559
of our people will be
heard by Sitting Bulll and

1431
01:17:21.559 --> 01:17:24.089
all our ancestors in the spirit world.

1432
01:17:24.219 --> 01:17:26.839
Let us send to our great
chief a new song to sing

1433
01:17:26.839 --> 01:17:29.379
when he rides around the
people in the spirit world.

1434
01:17:29.379 --> 01:17:31.649
Look at our children,
they're going to live again.

1435
01:17:32.059 --> 01:17:33.679
They are going to live again.

1436
01:17:33.679 --> 01:17:35.889
Sitting Bull says this as he rides."

1437
01:17:36.559 --> 01:17:39.339
And just some pictures to leave you with.

1438
01:17:39.339 --> 01:17:42.099
This was a buffalo in the Black Hllls

1439
01:17:42.099 --> 01:17:43.449
on the side of the road.

1440
01:17:43.859 --> 01:17:47.389
Taken from the car, safely inside the car.

1441
01:17:47.419 --> 01:17:52.379
So they're just awesome
and they're inspirational

1442
01:17:52.379 --> 01:17:56.639
because they've survived so
long they're our relatives

1443
01:17:56.639 --> 01:17:59.099
so I'm very inspired by them.

1444
01:17:59.099 --> 01:18:01.379
When I get really tired,
especially physically,

1445
01:18:01.379 --> 01:18:05.099
I just think of those big bodies
on those little skinny legs

1446
01:18:05.099 --> 01:18:09.779
and so when I've had to dance
in ceremonies I remember that

1447
01:18:09.779 --> 01:18:13.089
and I just get, okay if
they can do it I sure can.

1448
01:18:13.159 --> 01:18:15.199
My legs are a little bigger than...

1449
01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:16.359
(she laughs)

1450
01:18:16.359 --> 01:18:18.209
So I said, "I can do this."

1451
01:18:20.479 --> 01:18:23.560
That was from a buffalo
roundup in South Dakota.

1452
01:18:23.930 --> 01:18:27.970
So we have some time, as
far as I understand for

1453
01:18:27.970 --> 01:18:30.790
questions and comments and again,

1454
01:18:30.790 --> 01:18:35.790
my apologies that the video
didn't work at all but

1455
01:18:38.430 --> 01:18:40.750
I'll put that site back up there.

1456
01:18:40.750 --> 01:18:45.750
It's about the Sherman
Indian School, which actually

1457
01:18:45.850 --> 01:18:50.530
predated the Carlisle
Indian School in New York so

1458
01:18:50.530 --> 01:18:52.230
I'll put that up there again.

1459
01:18:52.230 --> 01:18:53.410
(audience claps)

1460
01:18:53.410 --> 01:18:54.780
Thank you.

1461
01:19:28.462 --> 01:19:29.772
- [Audience Member 2] I have a question.

1462
01:19:31.462 --> 01:19:34.302
I noticed that you focused a lot on like

1463
01:19:34.302 --> 01:19:37.252
individual or collective interventions?

1464
01:19:37.622 --> 01:19:42.542
And I was curious about
the suggestion for like

1465
01:19:42.542 --> 01:19:47.542
policy change or like
otherwise like higher level or

1466
01:19:48.922 --> 01:19:52.692
(inaudible) interpersonal
individual level?

1467
01:19:53.782 --> 01:19:57.062
- Yeah so the question is

1468
01:19:57.062 --> 01:19:59.982
suggestions for policy change or

1469
01:19:59.982 --> 01:20:03.112
higher level interventions or so.

1470
01:20:03.422 --> 01:20:07.242
I'm not a policy person
so I don't really know the

1471
01:20:07.242 --> 01:20:08.722
whole science of that.

1472
01:20:08.722 --> 01:20:11.742
I know in my earlier
days I was involved in

1473
01:20:11.742 --> 01:20:16.742
different kinds of groups
and kinda community activism

1474
01:20:17.362 --> 01:20:22.362
but it's not like a science
for me, I don't know but

1475
01:20:22.622 --> 01:20:26.042
I've been involved with
different kinds of task forces

1476
01:20:26.042 --> 01:20:31.042
and of course our three
historical trauma conferences,

1477
01:20:32.342 --> 01:20:35.022
where funders were present.

1478
01:20:35.022 --> 01:20:37.682
SAMHSA actually gave us a
lot of support for those

1479
01:20:37.682 --> 01:20:40.372
conferences, we had foundation grants.

1480
01:20:40.882 --> 01:20:44.062
When we started the Takini
Network, we didn't have

1481
01:20:44.062 --> 01:20:48.222
our own 501C3 initially,
so the Seventh Generation

1482
01:20:48.222 --> 01:20:51.842
Development Fund, which is
a great organization out of

1483
01:20:51.842 --> 01:20:55.602
California, and helps
tribal programs get started

1484
01:20:55.602 --> 01:20:59.662
that are more grassroots efforts.

1485
01:21:00.402 --> 01:21:05.402
But they don't support programs
that have federal funding.

1486
01:21:06.782 --> 01:21:08.922
They made an exception
for us, we didn't have

1487
01:21:08.922 --> 01:21:10.522
federal funding initially, but they made

1488
01:21:10.522 --> 01:21:12.842
an exception for us
because of the type of work

1489
01:21:12.842 --> 01:21:15.912
we were doing, they saw that
as really helping our people.

1490
01:21:16.102 --> 01:21:18.822
And then eventually we
got our own 501C3 for the

1491
01:21:18.822 --> 01:21:21.332
Takini Network, which we don't have now.

1492
01:21:22.062 --> 01:21:26.682
We just let it lapse after
2003, just 'cause the funding

1493
01:21:26.682 --> 01:21:30.082
challenges post 9/11 kinda
caught up with us and

1494
01:21:30.082 --> 01:21:34.412
we all have other jobs
that we're doing so...

1495
01:21:34.962 --> 01:21:36.942
So I think that those are some things.

1496
01:21:36.942 --> 01:21:40.442
I know a lot of our folks
have been involved with

1497
01:21:40.442 --> 01:21:44.382
UN Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues

1498
01:21:44.382 --> 01:21:49.382
and have gone to testify, been to Geneva.

1499
01:21:49.762 --> 01:21:52.502
There's a Lakota treaty council.

1500
01:21:52.502 --> 01:21:55.782
My brother's been involved
with all of those things and

1501
01:21:55.782 --> 01:21:58.822
has friends all over Europe who are

1502
01:21:58.822 --> 01:22:02.002
support, have Native
support groups actually

1503
01:22:02.002 --> 01:22:07.002
in Europe, and trying to
raise funds and just sort of

1504
01:22:07.802 --> 01:22:10.872
offer political support.

1505
01:22:12.883 --> 01:22:16.923
So I don't know how helpful that is.

1506
01:22:16.923 --> 01:22:21.923
I think trying to change
legislation and do

1507
01:22:24.083 --> 01:22:27.273
advocacy is really important in that area.

1508
01:22:27.583 --> 01:22:32.583
I also know that there's a
boarding school healing project

1509
01:22:32.723 --> 01:22:36.753
and they've done a lot
to try to get testimony.

1510
01:22:37.423 --> 01:22:42.423
Kind of like the truth and
reconciliation commission work

1511
01:22:42.963 --> 01:22:46.743
on these boarding school
abuses and other kinds

1512
01:22:46.743 --> 01:22:51.083
of trauma and trying
to put that on the map

1513
01:22:51.083 --> 01:22:53.863
but we sort of, in the
Takini Network, are very

1514
01:22:53.863 --> 01:22:58.503
careful and protective because
we do this healing work,

1515
01:22:58.503 --> 01:23:03.503
we wanna stay neutral
and sort of politically

1516
01:23:03.583 --> 01:23:04.943
very trustworthy.

1517
01:23:05.393 --> 01:23:08.283
The other thing is when you
have a certain kind of a

1518
01:23:08.283 --> 01:23:12.483
spiritual commitment, you're
supposed to stay out of

1519
01:23:12.483 --> 01:23:15.863
controversy and so
that's something that we

1520
01:23:15.863 --> 01:23:20.863
also have to try to
navigate so that you sort of

1521
01:23:21.143 --> 01:23:25.803
stay pure and you're neutral and you

1522
01:23:25.803 --> 01:23:28.223
sort of help the people.

1523
01:23:28.223 --> 01:23:32.223
I have had the privilege
of actually doing some

1524
01:23:32.223 --> 01:23:36.071
work with some Native
Christian fundamentalist groups

1525
01:23:36.071 --> 01:23:39.851
so even though I practice
traditional Lakota spirituality

1526
01:23:39.851 --> 01:23:42.331
and we know that there's
all this colonization

1527
01:23:42.331 --> 01:23:45.691
that the Christian
religions were involved with

1528
01:23:45.691 --> 01:23:49.351
in the boarding schools, we
do have a lot of people who

1529
01:23:49.351 --> 01:23:51.451
are Christian in Native
communities and who

1530
01:23:51.451 --> 01:23:54.911
practice both traditional
and Christian beliefs

1531
01:23:54.911 --> 01:23:57.141
so we don't impose that on anyone.

1532
01:23:57.571 --> 01:24:00.391
But it was actually quite
an honor to work with this

1533
01:24:00.391 --> 01:24:04.171
Christian fundamentalist camp and

1534
01:24:04.171 --> 01:24:08.011
the people were great, and
if you kind of just don't

1535
01:24:08.011 --> 01:24:12.411
listen to certain language, that they

1536
01:24:12.411 --> 01:24:15.641
sounded like rabble rousers, actually.

1537
01:24:15.691 --> 01:24:18.771
They wanted to get more
culture into the services

1538
01:24:18.771 --> 01:24:23.411
so they invited me to stay
for the ecumenical services,

1539
01:24:23.411 --> 01:24:26.591
they decided that I
was anointed and it was

1540
01:24:26.591 --> 01:24:30.111
a real honor and I stayed it
was really a good experience

1541
01:24:30.111 --> 01:24:31.971
so my recommendation to them was to

1542
01:24:31.971 --> 01:24:35.131
keep doing what they
were doing and to develop

1543
01:24:35.131 --> 01:24:38.351
in their own healing work,
something that fit their belief

1544
01:24:38.351 --> 01:24:43.091
system and their services, so
it wouldn't violate that but

1545
01:24:43.091 --> 01:24:45.840
they were still very
much Native people and

1546
01:24:45.840 --> 01:24:50.020
really wanting to protect
and help Native communities.

1547
01:24:50.020 --> 01:24:52.600
It's just that they had been
Christianized and really

1548
01:24:52.600 --> 01:24:54.860
believed in that way but
they sort of had their

1549
01:24:54.860 --> 01:24:58.260
own version of how that got played out

1550
01:24:58.260 --> 01:25:01.580
so I just think that's another example of

1551
01:25:01.580 --> 01:25:05.880
sort of facilitating or
helping other people to...

1552
01:25:05.880 --> 01:25:08.740
I think that's a very
sacred thing, is someone's

1553
01:25:08.740 --> 01:25:12.060
relationship with their own
spirituality that we can't tell

1554
01:25:12.060 --> 01:25:14.930
somebody else how to
practice or how to believe.

1555
01:25:15.240 --> 01:25:16.990
That's kinda sacred ground.

1556
01:25:17.100 --> 01:25:19.860
And so just to support other people in

1557
01:25:19.860 --> 01:25:23.340
empowering themselves in whatever way

1558
01:25:23.340 --> 01:25:24.810
that you can.

1559
01:25:25.420 --> 01:25:28.240
And I don't have any
more scientific way of

1560
01:25:28.240 --> 01:25:30.800
suggesting that but I stay really

1561
01:25:30.800 --> 01:25:35.660
I've kinda narrowly
focused in terms of again

1562
01:25:35.660 --> 01:25:39.230
like I said being a
woman on a mission so...

1563
01:25:40.240 --> 01:25:41.410
Thank you.

1564
01:25:42.520 --> 01:25:44.840
There's a lady back there
and a gentleman over there.

1565
01:25:44.840 --> 01:25:46.000
- [Audience Member 3] First
of all I'd like to say

1566
01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:47.400
thank you very much, it was an honor

1567
01:25:47.400 --> 01:25:48.810
to hear you speak tonight.

1568
01:25:49.280 --> 01:25:50.680
Thank you very very much.

1569
01:25:50.680 --> 01:25:51.360
- Thank you.

1570
01:25:51.360 --> 01:25:52.780
- [Audience Member 3] I
have a couple of questions.

1571
01:25:52.780 --> 01:25:57.470
My first question is, did
you ever get to look at

1572
01:25:57.470 --> 01:26:00.300
the atrocities that
happened in Ireland with the

1573
01:26:00.300 --> 01:26:02.010
Magdalene laundries?

1574
01:26:02.560 --> 01:26:04.980
I see a lot of similarities and I just

1575
01:26:04.980 --> 01:26:06.670
am curious about that.

1576
01:26:06.740 --> 01:26:08.420
- No I didn't.

1577
01:26:08.420 --> 01:26:11.800
I'm sort of remotely aware
of other kinds of atrocities

1578
01:26:11.800 --> 01:26:16.800
to other groups but I spend so much time

1579
01:26:17.180 --> 01:26:19.400
and focus on this that I...

1580
01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:23.542
I don't act like I have
limited time 'cause I'm always

1581
01:26:23.542 --> 01:26:28.542
doing so much but yeah
so but I really encourage

1582
01:26:29.422 --> 01:26:32.542
that sort of communication
of other atrocities

1583
01:26:32.542 --> 01:26:35.362
across the world and unfortunately,

1584
01:26:35.362 --> 01:26:37.082
people have not learned to--

1585
01:26:37.082 --> 01:26:40.722
I mean collectively, to treat
one another with respect

1586
01:26:40.722 --> 01:26:43.462
and dignity and unfortunately genocide

1587
01:26:43.462 --> 01:26:45.712
is continuing in the globe so.

1588
01:26:46.982 --> 01:26:48.482
- [Audience Member 3]
My second question is

1589
01:26:48.482 --> 01:26:51.102
and you just touched on it
a little bit in the earlier

1590
01:26:51.102 --> 01:26:56.102
question and that is,
very curious about how

1591
01:26:58.082 --> 01:27:02.942
the generations of the
people who have been a part

1592
01:27:02.942 --> 01:27:07.702
of the atrocities, how these
later generations deal with

1593
01:27:07.702 --> 01:27:12.222
that so like people who
taught in the schools,

1594
01:27:12.222 --> 01:27:16.023
stuff like that, and was
wondering if that ever came up

1595
01:27:16.023 --> 01:27:21.023
in your research, or anybody
doing the research on how

1596
01:27:21.763 --> 01:27:26.763
just the progress of the
people that did work either

1597
01:27:27.243 --> 01:27:29.623
as workers (inaudible) internment camps or

1598
01:27:29.623 --> 01:27:34.623
in the schools or if you
had any knowledge of that.

1599
01:27:35.863 --> 01:27:40.403
- I just know of some,
a few clinicians who are

1600
01:27:40.403 --> 01:27:45.403
actually of German-Catholic descent who

1601
01:27:45.663 --> 01:27:48.903
sort of carry a sense of
guilt about the Holocaust,

1602
01:27:48.903 --> 01:27:50.503
even though they weren't
personally involved

1603
01:27:50.503 --> 01:27:53.453
but that's part of their legacy.

1604
01:27:53.703 --> 01:27:57.083
And so some of them work
in tribal communities.

1605
01:27:57.083 --> 01:28:00.323
So I think that that's
sort of one thing that they

1606
01:28:00.323 --> 01:28:05.323
do to sort of try to
maybe undo a little bit

1607
01:28:05.893 --> 01:28:10.583
and it's hard but I know
a lot of conferences,

1608
01:28:10.583 --> 01:28:13.563
even like the American Indian
Movement when they would have

1609
01:28:13.563 --> 01:28:17.763
different conferences, they
have meetings of allies.

1610
01:28:17.763 --> 01:28:20.663
So like there's this concept
of people who are allies who

1611
01:28:20.663 --> 01:28:25.663
wanna support Native efforts
so that's one thing that is

1612
01:28:25.943 --> 01:28:29.083
happening but what I like
to recommend to people,

1613
01:28:29.083 --> 01:28:31.843
and I would always to student
is to look at your own

1614
01:28:31.843 --> 01:28:36.843
history, because the
people that came to this

1615
01:28:37.103 --> 01:28:41.444
continent were escaping
oppression often times,

1616
01:28:41.444 --> 01:28:45.044
and so people were coming
here, maybe carrying

1617
01:28:45.044 --> 01:28:48.184
trauma and to sort of
go back and try to heal

1618
01:28:48.184 --> 01:28:51.884
that too would be really good.

1619
01:28:51.884 --> 01:28:52.974
Would be helpful.

1620
01:28:54.124 --> 01:28:56.614
- [Audience Member 4] (inaudible)
take one more question.

1621
01:28:56.744 --> 01:28:57.704
- Oh, okay.

1622
01:29:01.324 --> 01:29:02.354
Go ahead.

1623
01:29:02.864 --> 01:29:04.904
(mumbles) pointing, and I had said him.

1624
01:29:04.904 --> 01:29:05.814
How 'bout two?

1625
01:29:06.724 --> 01:29:09.534
That gentleman back
here and then down here.

1626
01:29:10.524 --> 01:29:12.014
'Cause I had told him first.

1627
01:29:12.384 --> 01:29:13.694
(she laughs)

1628
01:29:13.964 --> 01:29:14.964
- [Audience Member 5] I was
curious to hear a little bit

1629
01:29:14.964 --> 01:29:17.264
more about the compensatory
fantasies, if you could

1630
01:29:17.264 --> 01:29:19.954
speak to that, and also
maybe give some examples.

1631
01:29:20.824 --> 01:29:25.464
- Yeah so the field that
you go into, for example.

1632
01:29:25.464 --> 01:29:29.012
I usually like to recommend
to providers that,

1633
01:29:29.012 --> 01:29:33.570
are you really doing what is
your gifts, using your gifts

1634
01:29:33.570 --> 01:29:35.670
and your passion and what
you're supposed to be doing

1635
01:29:35.670 --> 01:29:38.490
or are you acting out your
compensatory fantasies?

1636
01:29:38.490 --> 01:29:40.530
So you're trying to...

1637
01:29:40.530 --> 01:29:42.470
So compensatory fantasies is trying to

1638
01:29:42.470 --> 01:29:45.230
make up for something
that you didn't cause

1639
01:29:45.230 --> 01:29:49.150
that's traumatic in your
family or your family history

1640
01:29:49.150 --> 01:29:51.580
so we'll say children
of Holocaust survivors.

1641
01:29:51.870 --> 01:29:56.790
They feel like they have to
somehow be everything to their

1642
01:29:56.790 --> 01:29:59.430
parents, there's
tremendous pressure on them

1643
01:29:59.430 --> 01:30:01.990
because they feel like in
some way they have to make

1644
01:30:01.990 --> 01:30:04.460
up for the Holocaust losses.

1645
01:30:04.710 --> 01:30:07.510
Even though they didn't cause it so

1646
01:30:07.510 --> 01:30:10.730
what I see in a lot of
Native communities is that we

1647
01:30:10.730 --> 01:30:14.330
sometimes do that so
we're doing things where

1648
01:30:14.330 --> 01:30:19.170
we're just like dishrags,
just wrung dry, trying to

1649
01:30:19.170 --> 01:30:20.310
help our communities.

1650
01:30:20.310 --> 01:30:22.630
Some people who go away to school and then

1651
01:30:22.630 --> 01:30:25.770
they feel so guilty about
having this opportunity

1652
01:30:25.770 --> 01:30:27.850
when people are suffering
at home that they drop

1653
01:30:27.850 --> 01:30:31.110
out or flunk out and go back home

1654
01:30:31.110 --> 01:30:34.740
just because that's out of
the compensatory fantasy so.

1655
01:30:35.790 --> 01:30:37.240
That's a example.

1656
01:30:37.410 --> 01:30:38.810
- [Audience Member 6] Okay
thank you Doctor Braveheart.

1657
01:30:38.810 --> 01:30:43.370
I'm particularly inspired and
intrigued when you talk about

1658
01:30:43.370 --> 01:30:46.980
the engagement with
wisdom, indigenous wisdom.

1659
01:30:47.110 --> 01:30:48.850
And you gave example, you couldn't think

1660
01:30:48.850 --> 01:30:50.781
of the exact number but
in terms of evidence-based

1661
01:30:50.781 --> 01:30:55.781
research, and I wonder how
you are realizing your hope

1662
01:30:58.001 --> 01:31:01.341
to incorporate and engage
with indigenous knowledge

1663
01:31:01.341 --> 01:31:05.071
and wisdom in Western research context.

1664
01:31:06.381 --> 01:31:09.241
- Yeah so actually the
miracle of getting this

1665
01:31:09.241 --> 01:31:11.201
NIMH funding...

1666
01:31:11.201 --> 01:31:14.561
Actually we were in a
ceremony around the time

1667
01:31:14.561 --> 01:31:16.611
before the decision was made.

1668
01:31:17.021 --> 01:31:22.021
And the healer told us
that we would get help

1669
01:31:22.621 --> 01:31:25.261
and actually gave me
something from the ceremony

1670
01:31:25.261 --> 01:31:29.801
and that's kind of an
example of kinda that

1671
01:31:29.801 --> 01:31:32.361
sort of empowerment on some other kind of

1672
01:31:32.361 --> 01:31:36.762
level but so I think
that's it and the fact that

1673
01:31:36.762 --> 01:31:40.163
we got the funding I'm still
pretty amazed and that we have

1674
01:31:40.163 --> 01:31:42.543
this study monitoring
team and that we have

1675
01:31:42.543 --> 01:31:44.263
and the program officer.

1676
01:31:44.263 --> 01:31:48.404
And sometimes we really have to

1677
01:31:48.404 --> 01:31:52.464
really share with them to
help them to understand

1678
01:31:52.464 --> 01:31:54.824
because some of them don't have any

1679
01:31:54.824 --> 01:31:59.504
conception of what it's like
on some of our reservations

1680
01:31:59.504 --> 01:32:02.664
and in some of our communities and the...

1681
01:32:02.664 --> 01:32:05.264
One of the examples is
a very simple thing,

1682
01:32:05.264 --> 01:32:07.004
the research incentives.

1683
01:32:07.004 --> 01:32:12.004
The gift cards so for our
department tends to use

1684
01:32:12.124 --> 01:32:15.314
Walmart gift cards 'cause
there's not an additional fee.

1685
01:32:15.784 --> 01:32:20.614
But Walmart is 90 miles away
from this tribal community.

1686
01:32:20.844 --> 01:32:23.524
So people would actually be
in debt trying to use their

1687
01:32:23.524 --> 01:32:24.874
research incentive.

1688
01:32:25.964 --> 01:32:28.264
So we have to pay a
higher fee so we can use

1689
01:32:28.264 --> 01:32:32.064
Visa gift cards which the
local tribal gas station will

1690
01:32:32.064 --> 01:32:34.914
accept 'cause they can't get to Walmart.

1691
01:32:35.164 --> 01:32:36.484
I mean people do go to Walmart

1692
01:32:36.484 --> 01:32:38.504
but it's a big production and they have to

1693
01:32:38.504 --> 01:32:40.064
make sure they have enough money and

1694
01:32:40.064 --> 01:32:42.364
have to be doing other things so then

1695
01:32:42.364 --> 01:32:45.444
it sort of defeats the
purpose and that's just a

1696
01:32:45.444 --> 01:32:49.404
minor sort of example but

1697
01:32:49.404 --> 01:32:54.404
I just feel like we got
funding staying true

1698
01:32:56.004 --> 01:33:01.004
to the model and it's
amazing that that happened.

1699
01:33:02.644 --> 01:33:05.784
And I think I also
cultivated relationships

1700
01:33:05.784 --> 01:33:08.684
within NIMH over the years.

1701
01:33:08.684 --> 01:33:11.684
I mean so I was thoughtful about getting

1702
01:33:11.684 --> 01:33:14.324
to know program officers,
sending in a concept paper

1703
01:33:14.324 --> 01:33:16.944
and say what do you think
and learning and going

1704
01:33:16.944 --> 01:33:21.024
to NIMH Mental Health
Service Research conferences

1705
01:33:21.024 --> 01:33:23.984
and they do have a thing
where you can go as a new

1706
01:33:23.984 --> 01:33:27.604
investigator and you have to
apply for it and I did that

1707
01:33:27.604 --> 01:33:29.424
and it's good 'cause
then they bring you in

1708
01:33:29.424 --> 01:33:32.364
a day early and give you
some mentoring and training

1709
01:33:32.364 --> 01:33:34.564
and they really are interested in

1710
01:33:34.564 --> 01:33:37.784
including more diversity
and they realize that

1711
01:33:37.784 --> 01:33:40.384
one of the most under represented groups

1712
01:33:40.384 --> 01:33:43.324
are American Indians,
Alaska Native in terms of

1713
01:33:43.324 --> 01:33:46.864
PIs and researchers and so they're really

1714
01:33:46.864 --> 01:33:49.374
trying to correct some of that.

1715
01:33:50.164 --> 01:33:51.754
Which is good, so.

1716
01:33:52.244 --> 01:33:54.884
So I think just hanging
in there and not giving up

1717
01:33:54.884 --> 01:33:59.534
and trying to be strategic and...

1718
01:34:00.264 --> 01:34:01.194
The Dean!

1719
01:34:02.865 --> 01:34:05.055
The Dean shall speak now.

1720
01:34:06.045 --> 01:34:09.525
- [Dean] (inaudible) this
was wonderful and I wanted

1721
01:34:09.525 --> 01:34:12.019
before you spoke tonight to
make sure everyone knew we

1722
01:34:12.019 --> 01:34:15.839
had a very special guest
in the audience as well

1723
01:34:15.839 --> 01:34:20.839
(inaudible)

1724
01:34:32.479 --> 01:34:37.479
helping to educate individual (inaudible)

1725
01:34:45.759 --> 01:34:48.519
(audience claps)

1726
01:34:48.519 --> 01:34:49.539
- I'll leelee you.

1727
01:34:49.539 --> 01:34:52.359
(makes Indian noise)

1728
01:34:52.359 --> 01:34:54.849
That's how you honor somebody.

1729
01:34:55.539 --> 01:34:57.659
(audience claps)

1730
01:34:57.659 --> 01:34:59.079
They're doing great work by the way

1731
01:34:59.079 --> 01:35:01.419
'cause we had a chance
to talk about many things

1732
01:35:01.419 --> 01:35:04.239
including some behavioral health issues

1733
01:35:04.239 --> 01:35:08.579
in the community so we really
had a good time visiting

1734
01:35:08.579 --> 01:35:11.269
and little bit earlier today so.

1735
01:35:12.299 --> 01:35:12.940
Thank you.

1736
01:35:12.940 --> 01:35:14.340
- [Audience Member 3] I'd like
to thank Doctor Braveheart.

1737
01:35:14.340 --> 01:35:15.400
Thank you very much.

1738
01:35:15.400 --> 01:35:16.490
- Thank you.

1739
01:35:16.600 --> 01:35:20.410
(audience claps)