WEBVTT

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- Hi, welcome to our Monday
night lecture this evening.

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Tonight we have joining
us Abraham Jared Long,

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who's a professionally trained chaplin

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with experience serving in health care,

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educational and correctional institutions.

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Currently, he provides
spiritual care services

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to the patients, family members, and staff

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at Hamilton Health Sciences in

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St. Joseph's Healthcare Hamilton,

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where he won the Angel
Marie O'Connor award

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for his exemplary integration of

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clinical work, academics, and research.

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Abraham received his graduate certificate

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in Islamic Chaplincy and Masters
of Arts in Islamic studies

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and Christian Muslim relations
from Hartford Seminary

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and his BA in Humanities
and Religious studies

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from California State
University, Sacramento.

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His chapter, Carrying for the Muslim Soul,

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approaches to the spiritual
care of Muslim patients,

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was recently published in a book titled

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Psychotherapy Cure for the Soul.

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In addition to his academic education

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and professional training, Abraham studies

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Islam Law, Theology, and
Spirituality with a variety

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of traditionally trained Muslim scholars.

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Abraham has an active
and fascinating blog,

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which I encourage you all to visit.

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I have spent some time on it recently

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and found it very informative.

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And it's at abrahamlong.com,
so I encourage you

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to welcome Abraham Jared Long.

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(audience applauding)

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- I begin first in the name of God,

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the most gracious and the most merciful.

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Thank you so much for
coming out this evening.

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For some in the community, it is Eid

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which is celebrating just after
the completion of Ramadan.

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For some Muslims in the community,

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it is the day before that (chuckles),

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because there are some differences

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even within the community
about when Ramadan ends.

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And I wanted to draw
attention to that right away

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because as I'm about to
discuss Islam and Muslims

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within the Muslim-American
society or community

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here we already have an
example of diversity.

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And if there's something that I would like

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to have come across, or at
least one of the points,

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is that it's a very diverse community.

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Now, this evening, we have
some learning objectives

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and they're slightly modified from what

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you might see before you from the

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literature that's been handed out.

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I've decided to actually include

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one more aspect up at the top.

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That familiarity with essential aspects

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of Islam and American Muslims.

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With all that is going on I thought that,

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in addition to talking about approaches

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to the care of Muslim clients,

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it would also be essential
to at least know some

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aspects of what Islam is
and what is that faith

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that informs your potential Muslim client.

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I would also like to draw
attention to the title.

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It is caring for Muslim clients.

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It is not caring for the Muslim client,

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as in there is no essential
version of a Muslim client.

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There's a wide variety, actually.

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And so, I've broken this
presentation up into three parts.

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The first of which is Muslims in

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America, a basic introduction.

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Here I'll just introduce for you

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a little bit about the Muslim
community and demographics.

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And as social workers,
as caring professionals,

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what sort of a central
point should you know

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when engaging with the Muslim population.

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Secondly, I'll be addressing reccommdend

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approaches for the care of Muslim clients.

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Now, as you heard from my
introduction, I'm a Chaplain.

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My care comes from a
faith-based perspective,

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comes with a spirituality in focus.

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I should declare that,
and make clear that,

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most of my patients
come from a wide variety

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of different faiths,
not necessarily Muslim.

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I care for Catholics, Protestants, Jews,

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Muslims, Muslims of
different faiths, even.

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But that is my profession, so I'm a caring

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professional in that way.

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And so I'll be speaking
from that perspective

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but tailoring it as best as
I can for the social worker.

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And the third part is open discussion.

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Now, before I even enter
into the first section,

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the first portion of
tonight's presentation,

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I'd just like to ask for you
to just think for a second

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of whatever questions you
hope get addressed tonight.

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Just have in mind what you
would like me to discuss.

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If there's something clear
in mind that you have,

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just take note of it
mentally or write it down.

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If I do not address it in
the first two sections,

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I hope we can have an open dialogue

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during the third portion
of this presentation, okay?

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So let's go ahead and begin.

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So, Islam sees itself
as part of a group of

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traditions that are called
Ethical Monotheisms.

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Now these Ethical Monotheisms are joined

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together with, so Islam is included,

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but also Judaism and Christianity

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and all their variant forms.

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The essential aspect that is important to

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keep in mind concerning
Ethical Monotheisms

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is not just the Monotheism aspect,

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the belief in one central creator God.

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But also the idea that
there's an ethical system

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that this creator God has passed down

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and encouraged human beings to follow.

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In a way, I like to kind
of think of it this way.

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That, just like how there are natural laws

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that govern the plant world, like a tree,

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and how a tree grows, this creator God

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has also laid down governing laws

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and practices for human beings to follow.

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But, human beings have
been given free will

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to choose whether or not
to follow them or not.

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And this is an essential
way of understanding

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these three traditions, Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam.

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Now, from an Islamic perspective,

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and you can actually see
this picture, pardon me,

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right, I'm going the wrong
direction, pardon me.

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If you see this picture right here,

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this is actually, it's
a little bit unclear,

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but you get the idea that it's a tree.

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This is a very typical, traditional way of

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looking at the history
of prophets in history.

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Those that most Christians
or Jews are familiar with

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would be these prophets,
primarily right here.

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And then the Prophet
Muhammad, peace be upon him,

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Muslims see him as actually
a descendant of the children

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of Abraham and that's the
connection right there,

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that's the historical
connection right there.

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And for Muslims, they see
that the Prophet Muhammad,

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peace be upon him, is a guide.

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Is not just a prophet, but someone

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to be emulated in one's practice.

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And that's an important part
of Islamic spirituality,

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the idea of emulation to
the best of one's ability.

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Now, just like other traditions,

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there have been different
ways of manifestations,

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of how to understand the emulation,

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of how to understand that practice.

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And, I find this way of dividing it up

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actually a little more useful than

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what you typically find in the literature.

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There are three main divisions
that we could talk about.

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There's traditional Islam
and traditional Islam,

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we could say, is a type
of Islam that has been

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passed down from generation,
to generation, to generation.

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It sees itself as carrying on the same

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methodological approach
or classical approach

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that the classical scholars,
for example, have carried on.

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Then there's Islamic Modernism,

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which is an approach to
Islam that seeks to engage

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the modern context in a head's on fashion.

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And then Islamic Fundamentalism,

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which actually I'd still
see that as part of

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Islamic Modernism, it's just
anti-modernism, in a way.

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Now, there's a lot of diversity here.

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Within Traditional Islam,
we could be talking about

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Sunnis and Shias, which is the typical way

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that's usually divided but
it's more diverse than that.

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And you can see that 90
percent to 96 percent

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of the Muslim world are Sunni

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and Shia make up about 9.5
percent of the population.

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But even still, if you
take a look at Sunni's,

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there is a wide variety of
differences amongst them.

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You don't need to worry
about all the details,

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just know that there's
a lot of words there.

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(audience chuckling)

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And, similarly, there's several different

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branches of Shia Islam as well.

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And there are also Sunni and Shia

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forms of Islamic Fundamentalism.

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And some of these names you see up here

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will stand out, others will not.

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The main point I'd like to get across

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is that there's diversity, and I find this

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a little bit easier to think about Islam

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as divided up into these three ways

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than just the Sunni Shias,
it's not very helpful.

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Now, moving from the
Muslim majority world,

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and Muslim history, to simply US Muslims,

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or Muslims here in America.

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Muslims have been in the US since

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the first African slaves
were brought here,

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and there is different statistics given

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about how many of the slaves were

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brought here from West Africa were Muslim.

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I've seen up to even like 33 percent

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of the African brought here were Muslims.

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However, while they did practice

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and try to carry on the practice
for as long as possible,

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there is not evidence that the culture

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has actually been passed down.

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It was actually fervently
stopped by slave owners

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that did not want to
see this type of culture

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passed on to later generations.

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But there was a resurgence
of African American

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identification with Islam that
happened in the early 1900's.

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And this came out in what can be described

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as proto-Islamic or pre-Islamic.

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This actually presents
one perspective of it,

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'cause their Heterodox groups from the

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perspective of Sunni-Islam,
but they wouldn't

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describe themselves as Heterodox.

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Now these groups they're most

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notably known as Nation of Islam.

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Most individuals when they think of

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Nation of Islam they think of Malcom X.

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Who here is familiar
with Malcom X at least?

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Okay, so initially, he
started off involved

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in the Nation of Islam,
which is really like

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a wonderful movement
which attracted followers

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to identify themselves
religiously with their roots.

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Like providing a rootedness that basically

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had been stripped from African Americans.

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So re-identifying with
their cultural roots,

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particularly in an Islamic perspective.

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But after, about like the 1980's or so,

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this group, Nation of
Islam, started actually

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coming closer to a Sunni version

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or what would be considered an

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Orthodox version of Islam,

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and in fact 30 to 40 percent of Muslims

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in America are African American.

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And this is a statistic,
they're the largest

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cultural group, actually, of
Muslims in the United States.

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But, they're often, and
too often, overlooked.

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Simply because greater emphasis
is laid upon immigrants.

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But the community within the United States

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is composed of a diverse population,

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in addition to African Americans.

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We could find religiously, ethnically,

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culturally, financially, politically,

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and, in regards to immigrant
status, different Muslims.

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Again, diversity.

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Now, this map is actually from 2000.

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It is a consensus map
of Muslims who at least

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have identified themselves
across the United States.

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And you can see this area
right here, where we're at,

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that we have, and this is based upon

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percentage of population
within that district.

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So, you can see that in the area we are,

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we can see about 1 to 2 percent of Muslims

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fill up this population here.

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And, depending on where you go,

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you'll find varying degrees
as well of Muslim population.

255
00:13:08.891 --> 00:13:11.291
And they tend to congregate,
or the largest centers

256
00:13:11.291 --> 00:13:15.111
of Muslim population,
tend to be around here

257
00:13:15.111 --> 00:13:19.751
and then also you can see in California.

258
00:13:19.751 --> 00:13:24.751
So, to the most popular
places, I guess, in the US.

259
00:13:25.871 --> 00:13:29.111
Now, Muslims in the US,
just like I showed you

260
00:13:29.111 --> 00:13:33.111
the diverse map earlier,
they're divided up into

261
00:13:33.111 --> 00:13:35.691
Sunni and Shia, but I wanna stress

262
00:13:35.691 --> 00:13:39.846
that there are varying versions of these.

263
00:13:39.846 --> 00:13:41.131
So, you might have one Muslim

264
00:13:41.131 --> 00:13:42.951
who self identifies as a Sunni,

265
00:13:42.951 --> 00:13:44.911
but their understanding
of it is quite different.

266
00:13:44.911 --> 00:13:46.451
They might be more fundamentalist

267
00:13:46.451 --> 00:13:48.191
or they might be more traditional

268
00:13:48.191 --> 00:13:50.351
or modernist in their approach.

269
00:13:50.351 --> 00:13:52.911
Same thing for a Shia.

270
00:13:52.911 --> 00:13:56.731
And then, actually I believe I mentioned

271
00:13:56.731 --> 00:13:58.651
the latter point right there,

272
00:13:58.651 --> 00:14:00.571
but I do wanna show you that this

273
00:14:00.571 --> 00:14:03.731
Islamic center of Washington, DC.

274
00:14:03.731 --> 00:14:07.851
I'm putting that up there as a reminder

275
00:14:07.851 --> 00:14:11.291
that one of the major aspects of

276
00:14:11.291 --> 00:14:14.351
American engagement in the Muslim world

277
00:14:14.351 --> 00:14:16.831
has obviously been controversially

278
00:14:16.831 --> 00:14:21.831
revolved around relationship
will oil rich countries.

279
00:14:22.891 --> 00:14:26.631
One of the reasons why
this is in Washington, DC

280
00:14:26.631 --> 00:14:30.371
is because we've had so many
diplomats come from Muslim

281
00:14:30.371 --> 00:14:34.131
and oil rich countries that
the government opened up

282
00:14:34.131 --> 00:14:36.811
and really wanted to make sure
that they were accommodated.

283
00:14:36.811 --> 00:14:38.991
This was pre-9/11 when, actually,

284
00:14:38.991 --> 00:14:41.171
relationships was much better than

285
00:14:41.171 --> 00:14:46.171
they are right now with
the Muslim majority world.

286
00:14:46.811 --> 00:14:51.291
Now in regards to being Muslim in the US,

287
00:14:51.291 --> 00:14:52.651
there's a wonderful study which I'll cite

288
00:14:52.651 --> 00:14:55.071
and show you in a little bit, from the

289
00:14:55.071 --> 00:14:58.511
Pew Research Center
that cites that Muslims

290
00:14:58.511 --> 00:15:03.511
are primarily middle class
and often highly educated.

291
00:15:03.611 --> 00:15:07.751
Right now there's a real
shift that's happened

292
00:15:07.751 --> 00:15:11.471
after 9/11, that prior to 9/11 Muslims

293
00:15:11.471 --> 00:15:14.631
mostly identified with their ethnicity.

294
00:15:14.631 --> 00:15:18.011
So they could say I'm a
Pakistani-American, right?

295
00:15:18.011 --> 00:15:21.851
I'm a Bangladeshi-American, right?

296
00:15:21.851 --> 00:15:25.731
But, after 9/11, there was a felt push

297
00:15:25.731 --> 00:15:28.331
by outside individuals that they no longer

298
00:15:28.331 --> 00:15:31.451
saw their ethnicity first,
they saw their religion first.

299
00:15:31.451 --> 00:15:33.771
And so the community also felt the shift.

300
00:15:33.771 --> 00:15:34.971
That they were no longer looked at by

301
00:15:34.971 --> 00:15:37.651
their ethnicity, per se,
but they're being viewed

302
00:15:37.651 --> 00:15:42.031
first and foremost by their
religious affiliation.

303
00:15:42.031 --> 00:15:44.971
And this really made
a shift for themselves

304
00:15:44.971 --> 00:15:49.971
and their own self identity.

305
00:15:51.931 --> 00:15:55.371
Worth noting that it's also a community

306
00:15:55.371 --> 00:16:00.371
that sees itself as
under-suspicion, and rightly so.

307
00:16:01.151 --> 00:16:04.231
This is from a protest
that happened in New York

308
00:16:04.231 --> 00:16:08.671
because of the NYPD's illegal surveillance

309
00:16:08.671 --> 00:16:13.671
of Muslims who were just
hanging out in coffee shops

310
00:16:15.931 --> 00:16:18.691
and you can see these
people asking, simply,

311
00:16:18.691 --> 00:16:21.631
just to stop spying on me.

312
00:16:21.631 --> 00:16:24.371
And one of the greatest
and most difficult aspects

313
00:16:24.371 --> 00:16:26.471
about being a Muslim in the US

314
00:16:26.471 --> 00:16:28.871
is that the dialogue centers around

315
00:16:28.871 --> 00:16:32.291
how close or not close
they are to terrorism.

316
00:16:32.291 --> 00:16:34.951
So, if you follow with
me to the Pew Report,

317
00:16:34.951 --> 00:16:38.291
which I cited earlier,
this is a wonderful report

318
00:16:38.291 --> 00:16:40.791
which I believe is basic
reading for anyone engaged

319
00:16:40.791 --> 00:16:43.531
with the Muslim-American
society, this one right here.

320
00:16:43.531 --> 00:16:46.891
And one of the questions
they ask in this report

321
00:16:46.891 --> 00:16:48.891
is, "What is the most important"

322
00:16:48.891 --> 00:16:51.771
"problem facing you right now?"

323
00:16:51.771 --> 00:16:53.631
They asked this of US Muslims.

324
00:16:53.631 --> 00:16:58.151
What is the most significant
problem facing you right now?

325
00:16:58.151 --> 00:17:01.871
If you take a look at it,
discrimination/racism/prejudice

326
00:17:01.871 --> 00:17:05.311
is 19%, the most significant issue.

327
00:17:05.311 --> 00:17:07.491
And I highlight financial
problems because,

328
00:17:07.491 --> 00:17:10.231
as social workers, individuals involved

329
00:17:10.231 --> 00:17:12.591
in helping people maybe
get back on their feet

330
00:17:12.591 --> 00:17:14.531
or whatever the case might be.

331
00:17:14.531 --> 00:17:16.971
Maybe even more most
Americans, or many Americans,

332
00:17:16.971 --> 00:17:18.551
they might say financial issues.

333
00:17:18.551 --> 00:17:23.331
Right, the whole saying of
why most marriages break up.

334
00:17:23.331 --> 00:17:28.331
But, look at this: Racism,
prejudice, stereotyping

335
00:17:28.611 --> 00:17:30.831
is such a major issue for this community,

336
00:17:30.831 --> 00:17:34.111
that it is number one as
the perceived problem.

337
00:17:34.111 --> 00:17:38.651
And if you take a look below
it, everything up until

338
00:17:38.651 --> 00:17:43.651
here is still related to
stereotyping, prejudice,

339
00:17:44.251 --> 00:17:46.651
it's just different ways of describing it.

340
00:17:46.651 --> 00:17:48.471
So, if we kind of add all these up,

341
00:17:48.471 --> 00:17:50.391
it's almost nearly, and if not more,

342
00:17:50.391 --> 00:17:53.131
than 50 percent of Muslims say

343
00:17:53.131 --> 00:17:56.431
that their most significant
problem right now,

344
00:17:56.431 --> 00:18:01.431
living as US Muslims, is prejudice.

345
00:18:01.631 --> 00:18:04.791
Now, as a social worker,
as a caring professional,

346
00:18:04.791 --> 00:18:09.791
a Muslim comes into our
office or we're engaging them.

347
00:18:11.711 --> 00:18:13.331
The very first thing that they might

348
00:18:13.331 --> 00:18:16.371
be worried about is judgement.

349
00:18:16.371 --> 00:18:18.331
So we as caring
professionals we have to be,

350
00:18:18.331 --> 00:18:22.451
ourselves, ready for that and I hope that

351
00:18:22.451 --> 00:18:24.131
the recommended approaches I provide

352
00:18:24.131 --> 00:18:27.211
after this portion will help us to be

353
00:18:27.211 --> 00:18:29.671
supportive and self-aware of what

354
00:18:29.671 --> 00:18:34.671
we ourselves bring into the
therapeutic relationship.

355
00:18:37.191 --> 00:18:39.211
Now, I like this quote and I wanted to

356
00:18:39.211 --> 00:18:42.011
note it before I moved to that section.

357
00:18:42.011 --> 00:18:44.891
That, regarding
anti-Muslim discrimination,

358
00:18:44.891 --> 00:18:48.351
there's a wonderful
article by Ghaneabassiri

359
00:18:48.351 --> 00:18:51.951
where he talks about Islamophobia.

360
00:18:51.951 --> 00:18:56.651
And he's actually a scholar
of Muslim history in the US,

361
00:18:56.651 --> 00:18:59.571
which there's not that
many, but he is excellent.

362
00:18:59.571 --> 00:19:02.951
He states, "The prevalence
of anti-Muslim sentiment"

363
00:19:02.951 --> 00:19:06.351
"in American politics and popular culture"

364
00:19:06.351 --> 00:19:10.071
"has less to do with what
Muslims believe and practice."

365
00:19:10.071 --> 00:19:12.231
"For the most part, the
overwhelming majority of them"

366
00:19:12.231 --> 00:19:17.031
"lead regular, boring lives
like other Americans."

367
00:19:17.031 --> 00:19:20.671
"As TLC's reality show
All-American Muslim testifies."

368
00:19:20.671 --> 00:19:22.731
Before I continue, who
remembers that show?

369
00:19:22.731 --> 00:19:25.231
All-American Muslim.

370
00:19:25.231 --> 00:19:28.331
Now, it was boring. You
might have enjoyed it,

371
00:19:28.331 --> 00:19:30.891
I don't wanna shoot it down if you did,

372
00:19:30.891 --> 00:19:32.671
people have different likes and dislikes.

373
00:19:32.671 --> 00:19:34.751
But it didn't make it past one season.

374
00:19:34.751 --> 00:19:37.411
Now, if you think about it, a show about

375
00:19:37.411 --> 00:19:41.111
American Muslims in a country where

376
00:19:41.111 --> 00:19:46.111
they're so stigmatized, it seems
like a total, stellar idea.

377
00:19:46.751 --> 00:19:51.251
Wow, you know? Revolutionary.

378
00:19:51.251 --> 00:19:53.431
It ended up just being boring.

379
00:19:53.431 --> 00:19:57.391
Why? Because Muslims are
just like any other family.

380
00:19:57.391 --> 00:19:59.491
If someone came to your house
and started video taping,

381
00:19:59.491 --> 00:20:03.291
you might have a very
pleasurable home life,

382
00:20:03.291 --> 00:20:06.771
but is it necessarily
worth a reality show?

383
00:20:06.771 --> 00:20:09.391
And that's the problem that happened here.

384
00:20:09.391 --> 00:20:11.391
And so, Ghaneabassiri says that,

385
00:20:11.391 --> 00:20:15.371
"Rather than anti-Muslim
sentiment being related to"

386
00:20:15.371 --> 00:20:18.691
"what Muslims believe and
practice," he asserts,

387
00:20:18.691 --> 00:20:20.351
"That has more to do with the inability"

388
00:20:20.351 --> 00:20:22.951
"of the larger American society to define"

389
00:20:22.951 --> 00:20:25.871
"it's relationship with
Muslim compatriots."

390
00:20:25.871 --> 00:20:30.031
In general, non-Muslim
Americans have a difficult

391
00:20:30.031 --> 00:20:31.771
time understanding what their Muslim

392
00:20:31.771 --> 00:20:35.531
neighbor means for their identity.

393
00:20:35.531 --> 00:20:39.671
Not necessarily what Muslims,
how difficult they're

394
00:20:39.671 --> 00:20:41.431
experiencing their
Muslim-American identity,

395
00:20:41.431 --> 00:20:44.026
but non-Muslim Americans.

396
00:20:44.026 --> 00:20:46.866
How do they understand themselves

397
00:20:46.866 --> 00:20:50.966
in a country that has Muslims in it?

398
00:20:50.966 --> 00:20:52.806
So, it's an identity issue.

399
00:20:52.806 --> 00:20:56.226
Usually the way that
this dialogue is framed

400
00:20:56.226 --> 00:21:01.226
or this discussion is
framed, it's usually about

401
00:21:02.026 --> 00:21:05.226
Muslim assimilation or lack there of.

402
00:21:05.226 --> 00:21:08.406
I love this point because he
says, "It's not just that."

403
00:21:08.406 --> 00:21:11.406
I believe it's part of it,
but it's not just that.

404
00:21:11.406 --> 00:21:14.026
It's also the other side of the coin.

405
00:21:14.026 --> 00:21:16.626
How easily are non-Muslim Americans

406
00:21:16.626 --> 00:21:18.726
themselves assimilated to the idea

407
00:21:18.726 --> 00:21:21.586
that their neighbor is Muslim,

408
00:21:21.586 --> 00:21:22.546
and what does that mean for their

409
00:21:22.546 --> 00:21:25.806
understanding of being an American.

410
00:21:25.806 --> 00:21:29.466
A very legitimate question.

411
00:21:29.466 --> 00:21:33.256
And this is a picture
of one of the families.

412
00:21:34.106 --> 00:21:37.026
So, this next part we're gonna engage

413
00:21:37.026 --> 00:21:39.086
some recommended approaches.

414
00:21:39.086 --> 00:21:40.386
And I would like to note that these

415
00:21:40.386 --> 00:21:42.366
recommended approaches were based

416
00:21:42.366 --> 00:21:47.366
upon a literature search,
and this is actually

417
00:21:48.086 --> 00:21:50.946
based, if you want to
read further about this,

418
00:21:50.946 --> 00:21:53.806
beyond, you know, this presentation,

419
00:21:53.806 --> 00:21:55.466
you can read this in
my chapter in the book

420
00:21:55.466 --> 00:22:00.386
Psychotherapy, Cure for the
Soul, where I discuss this

421
00:22:00.386 --> 00:22:03.146
in further length than
I'll be able to today.

422
00:22:03.146 --> 00:22:08.146
But, we'll talk about each one
in detail as best as we can.

423
00:22:08.466 --> 00:22:13.466
Now, I placed these in
order of what I believe

424
00:22:13.926 --> 00:22:16.066
would be most beneficial to follow.

425
00:22:16.066 --> 00:22:18.526
But you might find you wanna
go a different direction,

426
00:22:18.526 --> 00:22:20.106
but these are in a
particular order I believe

427
00:22:20.106 --> 00:22:24.446
is most beneficial for ourselves
as caring professionals.

428
00:22:24.446 --> 00:22:26.526
So, throughout the literature,

429
00:22:26.526 --> 00:22:29.106
the academical professional literature,

430
00:22:29.106 --> 00:22:32.366
one of the reigning themes about how

431
00:22:32.366 --> 00:22:35.966
to make sure we prepare
effectively for our Muslim clients.

432
00:22:35.966 --> 00:22:39.206
One of the things that comes
to up is self-awareness.

433
00:22:39.206 --> 00:22:42.486
So, Muslims are diverse, but there's one

434
00:22:42.486 --> 00:22:44.266
person we can always
guarantee will be in the room

435
00:22:44.266 --> 00:22:49.266
engaging the therapeutic
relationship and that's us.

436
00:22:49.266 --> 00:22:52.266
So what do we bring to the relationship?

437
00:22:52.266 --> 00:22:55.126
What do we bring to the conversation?

438
00:22:55.126 --> 00:22:58.886
And, so, we need to ourselves
learn how to self monitor.

439
00:22:58.886 --> 00:23:02.186
And, while I am Muslim, it doesn't mean

440
00:23:02.186 --> 00:23:03.366
I don't have assumptions as well

441
00:23:03.366 --> 00:23:07.046
about other Muslims, or non-Muslims.

442
00:23:07.046 --> 00:23:08.446
We each enter into a therapeutic

443
00:23:08.446 --> 00:23:11.246
relationship with assumptions.

444
00:23:11.246 --> 00:23:13.346
Now, that's part of being human,

445
00:23:13.346 --> 00:23:15.766
but being an effective therapist entails,

446
00:23:15.766 --> 00:23:17.866
I believe, that we should be aware of our

447
00:23:17.866 --> 00:23:22.646
assumptions so that we don't
implicitly impose them.

448
00:23:22.646 --> 00:23:24.286
So, we need to ourselves be aware

449
00:23:24.286 --> 00:23:26.726
of one's own perceptions, stereotypes,

450
00:23:26.726 --> 00:23:30.146
and beliefs about Islams and Muslims.

451
00:23:30.146 --> 00:23:32.226
And then also be aware of any personal

452
00:23:32.226 --> 00:23:34.166
cultural or religious values that you may

453
00:23:34.166 --> 00:23:36.546
be imposing upon your client.

454
00:23:36.546 --> 00:23:38.246
So, there might be some issues that

455
00:23:38.246 --> 00:23:40.646
perhaps you're very passionate about

456
00:23:40.646 --> 00:23:43.546
and you really just
want to help this client

457
00:23:43.546 --> 00:23:47.706
see it this way, but that's
not their value system.

458
00:23:47.706 --> 00:23:49.866
So, in a patient center, a client center,

459
00:23:49.866 --> 00:23:52.986
a person center approach to the care

460
00:23:52.986 --> 00:23:56.126
of our client, how can we learn from them

461
00:23:56.126 --> 00:23:58.386
the best way to care for them?

462
00:23:58.386 --> 00:24:00.546
And how can we learn from ourselves

463
00:24:00.546 --> 00:24:03.346
the best things, or the worst things,

464
00:24:03.346 --> 00:24:07.287
we should hold back?

465
00:24:09.577 --> 00:24:10.697
Following this, the literature

466
00:24:10.697 --> 00:24:13.997
discusses cultural sensitivity.

467
00:24:13.997 --> 00:24:18.597
Now, I specifically put this as number two

468
00:24:18.597 --> 00:24:22.037
before talking about Islam itself,

469
00:24:22.037 --> 00:24:24.357
because I see that if we approach the

470
00:24:24.357 --> 00:24:26.537
care of the Muslim
client from a culturally

471
00:24:26.537 --> 00:24:30.057
sensitive approach, rather
than religiously sensitive,

472
00:24:30.057 --> 00:24:32.677
per se, we're already widening

473
00:24:32.677 --> 00:24:34.577
the scope of how we look at them.

474
00:24:34.577 --> 00:24:39.577
They're not just a Muslim,
they're a Muslim within a context

475
00:24:39.597 --> 00:24:42.297
and we can be culturally
sensitive to the individual.

476
00:24:42.297 --> 00:24:44.537
And in fact, I personally
believe that individuals

477
00:24:44.537 --> 00:24:48.117
will find it easier to be
culturally sensitive at times

478
00:24:48.117 --> 00:24:50.337
and religiously sensitive particularly if

479
00:24:50.337 --> 00:24:55.337
you possess a lot of stereotypes
concerning the religion.

480
00:24:57.077 --> 00:24:59.217
So, when you enter into a relationship

481
00:24:59.217 --> 00:25:01.777
or attempt to enter a
relationship with your client,

482
00:25:01.777 --> 00:25:04.237
your Muslim client, they very well might

483
00:25:04.237 --> 00:25:08.977
feel vulnerable to
prejudices and postulation.

484
00:25:08.977 --> 00:25:13.977
Now, as I mention discrimination
was the number one worry.

485
00:25:14.437 --> 00:25:16.417
I have a friend who is also a hospital

486
00:25:16.417 --> 00:25:19.757
Chaplain like myself
who works in California.

487
00:25:19.757 --> 00:25:24.757
His Masters thesis was
actually a study on why

488
00:25:25.377 --> 00:25:29.557
Muslims in the hospital setting
most often refuse to put

489
00:25:29.557 --> 00:25:33.437
their religious identification
in their admission form.

490
00:25:33.437 --> 00:25:35.938
It's a phenomenon I've
also noticed myself.

491
00:25:35.938 --> 00:25:40.918
You'll see someone who looks
like he would be Muslim

492
00:25:40.918 --> 00:25:43.198
based upon the name, he or she,

493
00:25:43.198 --> 00:25:45.038
but they have not declared this at all.

494
00:25:45.038 --> 00:25:45.918
And, in fact, you go and talk to them

495
00:25:45.918 --> 00:25:48.258
and they're Muslim, but
they have not declared it.

496
00:25:48.258 --> 00:25:50.258
Why?

497
00:25:50.258 --> 00:25:54.078
His study shows that primarily
because of discrimination

498
00:25:54.078 --> 00:25:57.038
or worry about discrimination.

499
00:25:57.038 --> 00:26:01.378
Whether it's simply perceived
or real discrimination.

500
00:26:01.378 --> 00:26:04.458
And so we as caring professionals,

501
00:26:04.458 --> 00:26:06.958
how can we engage the client
so that they feel like

502
00:26:06.958 --> 00:26:08.938
we're not going to persecute them,

503
00:26:08.938 --> 00:26:10.858
we're not going to discriminate.

504
00:26:10.858 --> 00:26:12.638
One way is inviting the client to educate

505
00:26:12.638 --> 00:26:15.358
you about his or her faith.

506
00:26:15.358 --> 00:26:16.918
Now, whether or not you're
sitting in this room

507
00:26:16.918 --> 00:26:18.598
and you know more about Islam and Muslims

508
00:26:18.598 --> 00:26:21.418
than I or anyone else in here.

509
00:26:21.418 --> 00:26:23.458
Again, everyone is different,

510
00:26:23.458 --> 00:26:26.058
so you can invite your Muslim client,

511
00:26:26.058 --> 00:26:28.898
"Tell me about your
understanding of your faith,"

512
00:26:28.898 --> 00:26:31.278
"And how it is important for you."

513
00:26:31.278 --> 00:26:33.898
And simply that invitation
can be a great way

514
00:26:33.898 --> 00:26:36.818
for them to share with you how much their

515
00:26:36.818 --> 00:26:38.878
faith means to them and also open the

516
00:26:38.878 --> 00:26:41.918
dialogue for discussion
so they feel invited.

517
00:26:41.918 --> 00:26:43.298
And, in fact, that can really help you to

518
00:26:43.298 --> 00:26:46.978
create a rapport with your client.

519
00:26:46.978 --> 00:26:50.918
And then, there's another point,

520
00:26:50.918 --> 00:26:52.638
to be familiar with differences between

521
00:26:52.638 --> 00:26:55.618
individualistic and collectivist cultures.

522
00:26:55.618 --> 00:26:59.578
This changed dramatically my understanding

523
00:26:59.578 --> 00:27:02.458
and my own approach when I
came to this realization.

524
00:27:02.458 --> 00:27:06.038
That there are, as you
may already be aware,

525
00:27:06.038 --> 00:27:09.358
collectivist cultures and
individualist cultures.

526
00:27:09.358 --> 00:27:13.038
And they emphasize different values.

527
00:27:13.038 --> 00:27:16.438
I've taken this table from one article

528
00:27:16.438 --> 00:27:19.118
by a social worker by
the name David Hodge,

529
00:27:19.118 --> 00:27:22.278
called the Social Work
in the House of Islam,

530
00:27:22.278 --> 00:27:23.898
which is a recommended article.

531
00:27:23.898 --> 00:27:26.618
Where he notes, he says Islam here,

532
00:27:26.618 --> 00:27:30.538
but he could even technically
say collectivist cultures,

533
00:27:30.538 --> 00:27:34.758
or he could say individualist cultures.

534
00:27:34.758 --> 00:27:37.418
The idea of community over individualism,

535
00:27:37.418 --> 00:27:41.338
interdependence over independence,

536
00:27:41.338 --> 00:27:46.338
community actualization
over self-actualization.

537
00:27:46.778 --> 00:27:48.238
Now, a lot of the approaches that

538
00:27:48.238 --> 00:27:50.638
we're taught from a Western
perspective emphasize

539
00:27:50.638 --> 00:27:54.258
self-determination, personal agency.

540
00:27:54.258 --> 00:27:57.838
But for some Muslims, coming
from collectivist cultures,

541
00:27:57.838 --> 00:28:01.138
not all, but for some
Muslims coming from these

542
00:28:01.138 --> 00:28:05.178
cultural backgrounds,
they'd be more attune

543
00:28:05.178 --> 00:28:10.178
to approaches like family
and systems therapy,

544
00:28:10.818 --> 00:28:14.218
rather than the psycho dynamic approaches.

545
00:28:14.218 --> 00:28:16.058
So, talking about family relationships

546
00:28:16.058 --> 00:28:18.418
rather than how did that make you feel

547
00:28:18.418 --> 00:28:20.318
would actually be more
effective with these

548
00:28:20.318 --> 00:28:22.458
individuals, 'cause
typically from a collectivist

549
00:28:22.458 --> 00:28:25.798
culture, one of the
expectations when they're

550
00:28:25.798 --> 00:28:30.778
coming to a counselor
is, "Tell me what to do."

551
00:28:30.778 --> 00:28:33.898
But from a psycho dynamic
or Rogerian approach

552
00:28:33.898 --> 00:28:38.458
or a person-centered
approach, it's really like,

553
00:28:38.458 --> 00:28:41.358
"You tell us, you're
the expert of yourself,"

554
00:28:41.358 --> 00:28:43.378
"And we're here to help
you work through this."

555
00:28:43.378 --> 00:28:45.098
But individuals who are less exposed to

556
00:28:45.098 --> 00:28:47.178
Western psychotherapeutic approaches

557
00:28:47.178 --> 00:28:49.998
are less inclined to follow
you in that direction.

558
00:28:49.998 --> 00:28:51.698
So, if they're not going
with you it's not simply

559
00:28:51.698 --> 00:28:54.938
because they're bad clients,
it's that the methodology

560
00:28:54.938 --> 00:28:59.938
is flawed for that particular client.

561
00:29:04.169 --> 00:29:07.489
And as one therapist notes,

562
00:29:07.489 --> 00:29:09.509
"Psyhotherapy is actually
an encounter between"

563
00:29:09.509 --> 00:29:13.309
"at least two cultures, the one, or more,"

564
00:29:13.309 --> 00:29:15.489
'Cause we're part of multiple cultures,

565
00:29:15.489 --> 00:29:17.969
"to which the client belongs
and another one or more"

566
00:29:17.969 --> 00:29:20.069
"to which the therapist belongs."

567
00:29:20.069 --> 00:29:22.049
"Cultural transference
and counter transference"

568
00:29:22.049 --> 00:29:24.589
"takes place in this encounter."

569
00:29:24.589 --> 00:29:27.129
"Each side judges the other through,"

570
00:29:27.129 --> 00:29:31.259
"his or her own cultural lens."

571
00:29:33.239 --> 00:29:35.689
One thing I found working
in a hospital setting

572
00:29:35.689 --> 00:29:40.409
as the sole Chaplain of the Muslin faith

573
00:29:40.409 --> 00:29:42.969
is a certain expectation
that simply because

574
00:29:42.969 --> 00:29:46.009
I'm Muslim, I'm always
the best person to talk to

575
00:29:46.009 --> 00:29:49.669
if the client or the patient is Muslim.

576
00:29:49.669 --> 00:29:54.089
I've come to discover that
is not actually the case.

577
00:29:54.089 --> 00:29:57.629
In some cases, an individual
from one's culture,

578
00:29:57.629 --> 00:30:00.349
even if they're not of the same faith,

579
00:30:00.349 --> 00:30:02.209
would be more effective.

580
00:30:02.209 --> 00:30:05.749
Let me provide you an
example in this context.

581
00:30:05.749 --> 00:30:10.749
I remember speaking with
a refugee Iraqi man.

582
00:30:10.909 --> 00:30:15.909
And I'm very much trained in a Rogerian

583
00:30:15.929 --> 00:30:20.349
and in a narrative therapy,
solution focused approaches.

584
00:30:20.349 --> 00:30:24.469
He really didn't want to go there at all.

585
00:30:24.469 --> 00:30:27.149
But, I found that it was more effective

586
00:30:27.149 --> 00:30:29.029
when I tried other approaches,

587
00:30:29.029 --> 00:30:31.189
like speaking about family dynamics,

588
00:30:31.189 --> 00:30:33.769
speaking about relationships.

589
00:30:33.769 --> 00:30:38.069
That's where he wanted to go,
that's where he wanted to talk

590
00:30:38.069 --> 00:30:41.749
Now, another individual from his culture,

591
00:30:41.749 --> 00:30:43.949
or collectivist culture in general,

592
00:30:43.949 --> 00:30:46.209
I found would've been more effective

593
00:30:46.209 --> 00:30:48.949
than myself with him, personally.

594
00:30:48.949 --> 00:30:52.429
Because I am very much a Western Muslim.

595
00:30:52.429 --> 00:30:56.169
So, in a way I am a part
of multiple cultures.

596
00:30:56.169 --> 00:30:59.709
So, if you kind of go back to this here,

597
00:30:59.709 --> 00:31:02.449
Islam and Western Psycho Liberalism,

598
00:31:02.449 --> 00:31:05.489
I'm very much about self-determination,

599
00:31:05.489 --> 00:31:08.809
about personal agency,
that's just who I am.

600
00:31:08.809 --> 00:31:12.189
I'm very individualistic, right?

601
00:31:12.189 --> 00:31:15.649
But I'm also, I should say not either or,

602
00:31:15.649 --> 00:31:18.969
and I'm also Muslim, I have
ideals about collectivity,

603
00:31:18.969 --> 00:31:22.009
about care for the common good,

604
00:31:22.009 --> 00:31:27.009
so your Muslim client will
also have diverse perspectives.

605
00:31:28.049 --> 00:31:33.049
Be open to whatever those
perspectives are and hearing them.

606
00:31:36.280 --> 00:31:39.160
Another approach that's
recommended within the literature

607
00:31:39.160 --> 00:31:41.000
is familiarity with Islam and Muslim.

608
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:42.340
This is almost self evident.

609
00:31:42.340 --> 00:31:43.620
At the very least you should have some

610
00:31:43.620 --> 00:31:47.540
idea about Islam and Muslims
when engaging the demographic.

611
00:31:47.540 --> 00:31:50.960
Now, with this slide I would
just like the emphasize

612
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:52.820
that this does not mean
you have to read up

613
00:31:52.820 --> 00:31:57.820
on the history of early
Islamic thought and practice.

614
00:31:57.860 --> 00:32:00.160
You don't need to read about the crusades.

615
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.020
You don't even need to
necessarily read up on

616
00:32:03.020 --> 00:32:05.560
all the current conflicts
necessarily going on

617
00:32:05.560 --> 00:32:10.560
unless that demographic
is within your community.

618
00:32:10.580 --> 00:32:15.580
But simply being aware
of Muslim-Americans.

619
00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:20.080
It almost seems so simple.

620
00:32:20.080 --> 00:32:22.240
If you have a particular group of Muslims

621
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:24.000
within the community
that you're placed at,

622
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:27.420
that you're working for,
that you're caring for,

623
00:32:27.420 --> 00:32:29.180
find out about what
their life is like here

624
00:32:29.180 --> 00:32:32.000
in this community or that community.

625
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:32.980
What are the difficulties that

626
00:32:32.980 --> 00:32:35.500
they're facing in their community?

627
00:32:35.500 --> 00:32:37.160
It may have and likely has nothing to do

628
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:38.680
with necessarily what's going on

629
00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:43.680
back home for them, or
at their prior home.

630
00:32:44.380 --> 00:32:48.360
It'd be useful also to be
aware of some religious terms

631
00:32:48.360 --> 00:32:52.200
and practices relevant for
the care of your client.

632
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:57.200
For example, just knowing
"Allah" means God.

633
00:32:58.740 --> 00:33:02.220
And I tend to do this whenever
I give this presentation,

634
00:33:02.220 --> 00:33:06.260
'cause I can do it,
because I've got the mic,

635
00:33:06.260 --> 00:33:11.260
that some individuals they are unsure

636
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:15.660
with their non-Muslim whether they

637
00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:17.100
should use the term "Allah" when they're

638
00:33:17.100 --> 00:33:19.480
talking to a Muslim client,

639
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:21.620
and so there's different ways about it.

640
00:33:21.620 --> 00:33:25.000
So sometimes I've
experienced care providers

641
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:26.780
who say, "Oh, I don't say
it 'cause I don't want"

642
00:33:26.780 --> 00:33:29.780
"Them to think I'm belittling
or I'm a hypocrite,"

643
00:33:29.780 --> 00:33:31.720
"Or I don't want to confuse them"

644
00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:32.840
"About my own faiths, traditions,"

645
00:33:32.840 --> 00:33:35.540
whatever the case might be.

646
00:33:35.540 --> 00:33:39.520
For me, I don't have any advice for that.

647
00:33:39.520 --> 00:33:41.920
It's based on your own comfortability,

648
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:44.260
but if you decide to say
it, you'll impress them

649
00:33:44.260 --> 00:33:47.480
if you can pronounce it correctly.

650
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:51.960
So, the word for God in
Arabic is not "Ella",

651
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:56.960
with a light L, it's actually
with a heavy L, "Allah".

652
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:00.800
And in fact, to me, it
sounds more dignified.

653
00:34:00.800 --> 00:34:04.880
And so, if you are going
to use the name of God,

654
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.960
as used within really the Arabic language,

655
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:13.920
but also mostly identified
with Islam, use it correctly.

656
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:17.160
So, for those who wish who would like to,

657
00:34:17.160 --> 00:34:20.660
let's all say it together as a group.

658
00:34:20.660 --> 00:34:25.280
Alright, it's a heavy L, so, "Allah".

659
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:28.580
(audience all together "Allah")

660
00:34:28.580 --> 00:34:30.160
So, don't worry you haven't automatically

661
00:34:30.160 --> 00:34:31.580
converted to Muslims
or anything like that.

662
00:34:31.580 --> 00:34:32.920
(audience laughs)

663
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:37.340
But, now you know how
to say God in Arabic.

664
00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:40.300
Other terms or concepts that'd be useful

665
00:34:40.300 --> 00:34:42.440
to be familiar with is Ramadan.

666
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:46.720
I have been asked, you know
work in a clinical setting,

667
00:34:46.720 --> 00:34:50.760
to care for Muslim clients
who have eating disorders.

668
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:55.760
And Ramadan certainly
poses a certain complexity

669
00:34:56.920 --> 00:35:00.880
for an individual recovering
from an eating disorder.

670
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:04.020
And so understanding that
and how to work with that

671
00:35:04.020 --> 00:35:09.020
and not against their faith
is a way of actually helping

672
00:35:09.620 --> 00:35:12.400
them more successfully get
through it, quite honestly.

673
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:14.860
If they can see the recovery
plan as part of their faith

674
00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:16.580
and not leaving their faith aside,

675
00:35:16.580 --> 00:35:18.220
I can almost guarantee you that

676
00:35:18.220 --> 00:35:21.160
you'll be more successful at it.

677
00:35:21.160 --> 00:35:26.160
The Quran which is the Muslim
scripture, the holy book.

678
00:35:28.240 --> 00:35:31.640
Prayer itself, so five times a day.

679
00:35:31.640 --> 00:35:34.480
So, for example, your
client is kind of looking at

680
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:37.320
his or her watch 'cause,
you know, the sun's

681
00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:39.780
starting to go down and
you're kind of like,

682
00:35:39.780 --> 00:35:40.980
"What's going on with you?"

683
00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:44.900
"I have other places I could be too."

684
00:35:44.900 --> 00:35:46.420
Or whatever the case might be.

685
00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:47.880
Like, they might simply be looking to see

686
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:49.160
that, hey, they have to prayer.

687
00:35:49.160 --> 00:35:52.200
So, Muslims have five prayer
windows throughout the day.

688
00:35:52.200 --> 00:35:53.360
I don't need to get into the specifics,

689
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:55.420
but if you want to I will at a later time.

690
00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:57.760
So, there're really five prayer windows

691
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:02.760
and the observant Muslims will seek

692
00:36:03.340 --> 00:36:05.258
to pray within these prayer windows

693
00:36:05.258 --> 00:36:07.900
and they do end at a certain time.

694
00:36:07.900 --> 00:36:10.400
So, just being aware of that.

695
00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:12.840
And it's worth noting,
and I'm just going to

696
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:16.100
talk briefly about this, the word Sheria.

697
00:36:16.100 --> 00:36:19.820
It actually means the
way to the water well.

698
00:36:19.820 --> 00:36:22.920
Which, in a way, it entails guidance

699
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:25.480
on how one lives their life.

700
00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:28.040
Now, within the United States,

701
00:36:28.040 --> 00:36:30.780
it's very interesting that
this particular practice

702
00:36:30.780 --> 00:36:33.440
or religious practice has been identified

703
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:38.000
and banned in certain
states across the US.

704
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:43.000
Which really speaks to significant
aspects of persecution.

705
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:47.060
Because the fact that I
pray five times a day,

706
00:36:47.060 --> 00:36:49.940
that's because I follow the Sheria.

707
00:36:49.940 --> 00:36:51.820
That's the guidance,
that's because I'm trying

708
00:36:51.820 --> 00:36:55.500
to walk to the water well.

709
00:36:55.500 --> 00:37:00.021
The fact that I fast Ramadan,
that's part of Sheria.

710
00:37:00.021 --> 00:37:02.401
The fact that I try to
be nice to my parents

711
00:37:02.401 --> 00:37:05.561
as best as I can, that's part of Sheria,

712
00:37:05.561 --> 00:37:07.481
but the thing is it's
become sensationalized

713
00:37:07.481 --> 00:37:11.381
into particular extreme examples.

714
00:37:11.381 --> 00:37:12.841
Which we could discuss further perhaps

715
00:37:12.841 --> 00:37:15.881
during open discussion if you'd like.

716
00:37:15.881 --> 00:37:19.421
I've stressed, I think,
several times of diversity,

717
00:37:19.421 --> 00:37:22.921
so being aware of diversity
culturally and belief.

718
00:37:22.921 --> 00:37:26.421
And also be aware that
their are popular views

719
00:37:26.421 --> 00:37:30.401
or Islamic ways of
understanding mental illness

720
00:37:30.401 --> 00:37:33.841
that you might want to
understand from your client.

721
00:37:33.841 --> 00:37:36.521
How they might religiously understand

722
00:37:36.521 --> 00:37:38.861
what is going on for them if
you're dealing with someone

723
00:37:38.861 --> 00:37:41.861
with a mental illness, or
even any sort of ailment.

724
00:37:41.861 --> 00:37:45.661
An individual, for example,
loses their job or an arm

725
00:37:45.661 --> 00:37:47.941
or whatever the case might
be, they might attribute it

726
00:37:47.941 --> 00:37:51.401
to a sense of guilt that they're carrying.

727
00:37:51.401 --> 00:37:52.501
And if you don't address that guilt,

728
00:37:52.501 --> 00:37:57.501
you can't help them do anything, right?

729
00:37:57.981 --> 00:38:00.621
Now, these two books are
the ones that I would

730
00:38:00.621 --> 00:38:05.401
significantly recommend for
yourselves as social workers

731
00:38:05.401 --> 00:38:08.261
and those engaged in
the carrying profession.

732
00:38:08.261 --> 00:38:11.461
Counselling Muslims would be number one

733
00:38:11.461 --> 00:38:15.761
and what it does is it provides guidance

734
00:38:15.761 --> 00:38:19.101
and a look at different demographics

735
00:38:19.101 --> 00:38:22.441
within the Muslim-American community.

736
00:38:22.441 --> 00:38:25.721
And then it also looks at methodological

737
00:38:25.721 --> 00:38:29.221
approaches to caring for
them based upon evidence.

738
00:38:29.221 --> 00:38:32.301
Really, this is the best book
that's out there right now.

739
00:38:32.301 --> 00:38:37.001
But this is also good.

740
00:38:37.001 --> 00:38:38.801
In fact, if you're really
interested in learning more

741
00:38:38.801 --> 00:38:40.621
about differences
between the collectivists

742
00:38:40.621 --> 00:38:45.621
and individualistic approach,
then get this one right here.

743
00:38:49.581 --> 00:38:52.812
Now, as care providers,
another way of caring for

744
00:38:52.812 --> 00:38:57.112
your Muslim client is integrating
into your care their own

745
00:38:57.112 --> 00:39:01.612
methods for recovery, their
own methods for wellness.

746
00:39:01.612 --> 00:39:06.612
One easy way of doing this, prayer beads.

747
00:39:09.572 --> 00:39:11.912
Now, I work within a hospital setting

748
00:39:11.912 --> 00:39:14.752
and based upon the common protestant model

749
00:39:14.752 --> 00:39:17.572
that's still being
mimicked for other faiths,

750
00:39:17.572 --> 00:39:21.332
it's commonly thought that,
just like for Christians,

751
00:39:21.332 --> 00:39:24.832
a Muslim would want a Quran
when they're in the hospital.

752
00:39:24.832 --> 00:39:29.252
So, we have a shelf in
our spiritual care office

753
00:39:29.252 --> 00:39:31.632
with Qurans on it that the expectation is

754
00:39:31.632 --> 00:39:33.292
give out a Quran to a Muslim just like you

755
00:39:33.292 --> 00:39:36.072
would give out to an observant Christian.

756
00:39:36.072 --> 00:39:39.032
Well, that's actually not really the case,

757
00:39:39.032 --> 00:39:41.192
because for observant Muslims,

758
00:39:41.192 --> 00:39:45.392
touching the Quran when you
don't have a ritual of ablution,

759
00:39:45.392 --> 00:39:48.312
just like how I would wash for
prayer, or someone else would

760
00:39:48.312 --> 00:39:52.232
wash for prayer, it's actually a no-no.

761
00:39:52.232 --> 00:39:54.572
You only touch the Quran if you're even in

762
00:39:54.572 --> 00:39:57.112
the same state you would be in for prayer.

763
00:39:57.112 --> 00:39:58.872
And so, trying to hand someone a Quran

764
00:39:58.872 --> 00:40:00.152
who's lying on a hospital bed who has

765
00:40:00.152 --> 00:40:02.992
a catheter or whatever the case might be,

766
00:40:02.992 --> 00:40:05.372
if they turn you down
or feel kind of awkward

767
00:40:05.372 --> 00:40:07.952
that they're turning you down,

768
00:40:07.952 --> 00:40:10.772
it's partly because of the fact that they

769
00:40:10.772 --> 00:40:14.372
don't feel comfortable touching
the Quran in that state.

770
00:40:14.372 --> 00:40:18.672
So, one wonderful way is
giving out prayer beads.

771
00:40:18.672 --> 00:40:20.312
This is something I've actually encouraged

772
00:40:20.312 --> 00:40:22.232
Chaplains to do, but certainly even you as

773
00:40:22.232 --> 00:40:26.112
a social worker in
different clinical settings,

774
00:40:26.112 --> 00:40:28.332
you could just even make these yourselves.

775
00:40:28.332 --> 00:40:33.332
And if you like, I can
tell you how perhaps later.

776
00:40:33.812 --> 00:40:38.612
And then also being
aware of when to consult

777
00:40:38.612 --> 00:40:43.612
other individuals within
the Muslim community.

778
00:40:44.772 --> 00:40:47.392
Now, I would like to note here that

779
00:40:47.392 --> 00:40:52.392
studies actually show that many Imams

780
00:40:53.812 --> 00:40:57.652
do not have former counseling training.

781
00:40:57.652 --> 00:41:00.092
So, while you can contact and use Imams

782
00:41:00.092 --> 00:41:04.652
as resources, they're not
necessarily the best trained

783
00:41:04.652 --> 00:41:09.652
person for consultation,
depending upon the need.

784
00:41:09.692 --> 00:41:13.292
If it's more informational,
certainly, absolutely.

785
00:41:13.292 --> 00:41:15.332
But if it's something
related to counseling

786
00:41:15.332 --> 00:41:17.412
and a specific aspect of counseling,

787
00:41:17.412 --> 00:41:19.892
I'd prefer other individuals
within the community,

788
00:41:19.892 --> 00:41:24.512
which I'll talk about
later in this presentation.

789
00:41:26.893 --> 00:41:30.233
You might also wanna consider
incorporating sacred texts.

790
00:41:30.233 --> 00:41:34.273
Now, as social workers,
the role of spirituality,

791
00:41:34.273 --> 00:41:37.913
you yourself might define
how much spirituality

792
00:41:37.913 --> 00:41:41.813
is incorporated actually into
the care that you provide.

793
00:41:41.813 --> 00:41:45.093
But just be aware that
Muslims view the Quran

794
00:41:45.093 --> 00:41:48.033
as also a book of healing and, in fact,

795
00:41:48.033 --> 00:41:51.123
traditionally certain chapters are read

796
00:41:51.123 --> 00:41:53.027
when Muslims are in the hospital.

797
00:41:53.027 --> 00:41:57.147
In fact, it's quite common
working in a hospital

798
00:41:57.147 --> 00:41:59.647
setting myself, that when
I go to visit a Muslim,

799
00:41:59.647 --> 00:42:02.687
they have an iPad playing the Quran on it.

800
00:42:02.687 --> 00:42:05.727
So, they like to listen
to the recitation of it.

801
00:42:05.727 --> 00:42:10.357
And it's actually very
calming, very soothing.

802
00:42:12.987 --> 00:42:16.897
Kind of lost my train of thought there.

803
00:42:19.347 --> 00:42:21.327
And so, I would actually recommend

804
00:42:21.327 --> 00:42:26.327
of even having some sort of copy of that,

805
00:42:26.547 --> 00:42:28.267
if you'd like, or just be
aware of what's happening.

806
00:42:28.267 --> 00:42:30.187
Oh, now I remember what
I was going to say.

807
00:42:30.187 --> 00:42:32.227
That the Quran itself, the word Quran

808
00:42:32.227 --> 00:42:34.587
actually means the recitation.

809
00:42:34.587 --> 00:42:37.707
And so, for Muslims, the book the Quran,

810
00:42:37.707 --> 00:42:41.207
is technically just a recorded
version of the recitation.

811
00:42:41.207 --> 00:42:43.867
The Quran is what is spoken, okay?

812
00:42:43.867 --> 00:42:45.867
So, there's something
that's believed by Muslims

813
00:42:45.867 --> 00:42:50.867
to be very special about the spoken Quran.

814
00:42:50.987 --> 00:42:53.667
And it is worth noting that
there's a greater expectation

815
00:42:53.667 --> 00:42:56.967
from Muslim care providers
that they incorporate this.

816
00:42:56.967 --> 00:42:59.327
So, if you're a Muslim
caring for a Muslim client,

817
00:42:59.327 --> 00:43:02.167
like myself, there'd be a
greater expectation for me,

818
00:43:02.167 --> 00:43:04.087
"Oh, you don't know this verse?"

819
00:43:04.087 --> 00:43:07.087
or, "You don't know this?"
You know, so be aware.

820
00:43:07.087 --> 00:43:09.067
Be aware that whether
or not you know these

821
00:43:09.067 --> 00:43:12.927
aspects of care of the Muslim client,

822
00:43:12.927 --> 00:43:16.567
there'd be a great expectation perhaps.

823
00:43:16.567 --> 00:43:18.647
And, one way of incorporating this,

824
00:43:18.647 --> 00:43:22.887
whether you're Muslim or
not, is perhaps having

825
00:43:22.887 --> 00:43:26.887
little cards that you
can give to your client.

826
00:43:26.887 --> 00:43:28.687
And, in fact, if you go onto my website,

827
00:43:28.687 --> 00:43:31.307
I have about 13 or 14 small little prayers

828
00:43:31.307 --> 00:43:33.147
that you can copy and
paste, just make sure that

829
00:43:33.147 --> 00:43:36.127
the Arabic is in the same direction.

830
00:43:36.127 --> 00:43:38.507
Because sometimes people
just copy and paste

831
00:43:38.507 --> 00:43:40.727
and it messes up the Arabic.

832
00:43:40.727 --> 00:43:43.127
But, this is a very
common prayer that, again,

833
00:43:43.127 --> 00:43:46.267
this can help you to create
rapport with your client.

834
00:43:46.267 --> 00:43:49.247
That you can pass out this prayer to them,

835
00:43:49.247 --> 00:43:50.947
maybe even help them to read it.

836
00:43:50.947 --> 00:43:52.287
Encourage them just to find solace

837
00:43:52.287 --> 00:43:55.167
in their own faith tradition.

838
00:43:55.167 --> 00:43:58.827
And so this is (speaking Arabic)

839
00:43:58.827 --> 00:44:03.347
which is a call on God to
simply provide you with mercy.

840
00:44:03.347 --> 00:44:07.557
Very simple prayer, very simple prayer.

841
00:44:09.807 --> 00:44:11.508
Now the sixth point, and there are eight,

842
00:44:11.508 --> 00:44:14.628
so we're almost concluding this portion,

843
00:44:14.628 --> 00:44:19.428
is the levels of Western acculturation

844
00:44:19.428 --> 00:44:21.188
may determine ethicacy of Western based

845
00:44:21.188 --> 00:44:24.908
spiritual care or social work.

846
00:44:24.908 --> 00:44:27.188
So, bascially, one of the recommendations

847
00:44:27.188 --> 00:44:29.448
within the literature is to be aware

848
00:44:29.448 --> 00:44:33.348
of how Western your client is.

849
00:44:33.348 --> 00:44:35.688
Those who are more Western would

850
00:44:35.688 --> 00:44:40.008
likely be more inclined towards the

851
00:44:40.008 --> 00:44:43.268
Psycho Therapeutic, Psycho Dynamic,

852
00:44:43.268 --> 00:44:47.448
Rogerian approaches, but
those who are non-Western,

853
00:44:47.448 --> 00:44:50.368
you know, you have to
tailor to meet their needs.

854
00:44:50.368 --> 00:44:55.368
And in fact, I'm gonna just
move forward real quick.

855
00:44:55.548 --> 00:44:57.328
Some of the approaches that are proposed

856
00:44:57.328 --> 00:44:59.728
within the literature for Muslim clients,

857
00:44:59.728 --> 00:45:02.008
just across the board, include

858
00:45:02.008 --> 00:45:05.048
solution focused brief therapy,

859
00:45:05.048 --> 00:45:08.248
narrative therapy, metaphor therapy,

860
00:45:08.248 --> 00:45:10.468
and family therapy, but these two

861
00:45:10.468 --> 00:45:13.048
in particular if they're less Westernized,

862
00:45:13.048 --> 00:45:14.528
these bottom two right here.

863
00:45:14.528 --> 00:45:17.948
For those who are not as
familiar with metaphor therapy,

864
00:45:17.948 --> 00:45:20.948
Adwari speaks about it in this text

865
00:45:20.948 --> 00:45:24.009
and basically it's a wonderful way

866
00:45:24.009 --> 00:45:26.849
of getting the individual client to talk

867
00:45:26.849 --> 00:45:29.349
about their problems, so for example,

868
00:45:29.349 --> 00:45:31.169
someone says, "You know, I feel like"

869
00:45:31.169 --> 00:45:36.169
"I'm just stuck in a wall."
"Can you describe the wall?"

870
00:45:36.329 --> 00:45:38.609
You know, "What's making
this wall for you?"

871
00:45:38.609 --> 00:45:40.649
"Well, it's this, it's because of"

872
00:45:40.649 --> 00:45:43.069
"what my family's saying about this."

873
00:45:43.069 --> 00:45:47.549
Okay, "So, they're saying about this,"

874
00:45:47.549 --> 00:45:49.289
"How is this creating a wall for you?"

875
00:45:49.289 --> 00:45:50.889
"Well, because I'm feeling like,"

876
00:45:50.889 --> 00:45:53.809
And so run with it, be very creative.

877
00:45:53.809 --> 00:45:55.829
And in fact, through metaphor,

878
00:45:55.829 --> 00:46:00.029
they're actually talking
about their feelings, right?

879
00:46:00.029 --> 00:46:01.229
So, if they're coming
from a culture that's

880
00:46:01.229 --> 00:46:03.109
not used to speaking about their feelings

881
00:46:03.109 --> 00:46:05.909
so specifically, metaphor
is a wonderful way

882
00:46:05.909 --> 00:46:09.699
of getting them to go there.

883
00:46:10.969 --> 00:46:15.859
What did I have here? That's
basically the same thing.

884
00:46:18.689 --> 00:46:22.129
Seventh point is generate awareness.

885
00:46:22.129 --> 00:46:27.129
So, seems almost obvious,
but it's not often

886
00:46:27.469 --> 00:46:30.949
a priority to simply let
Muslims know in the community

887
00:46:30.949 --> 00:46:34.089
the type of services that you provide.

888
00:46:34.089 --> 00:46:38.389
So, when they enter into a therapeutic

889
00:46:38.389 --> 00:46:41.400
relationship with you, when you meet them,

890
00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:44.960
they already know about what
you're about to offer them.

891
00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:48.060
It's already a step in the door, alright?

892
00:46:48.060 --> 00:46:51.240
So you can almost that
much more quickly engage

893
00:46:51.240 --> 00:46:54.560
in a more effective
therapeutic relationship.

894
00:46:54.560 --> 00:46:56.640
So, let Muslims in the community know,

895
00:46:56.640 --> 00:46:59.140
so there's some advocacy,
there needs to be awareness

896
00:46:59.140 --> 00:47:02.440
about what you do as
a social worker, okay?

897
00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:04.460
And this can be obtained simply through

898
00:47:04.460 --> 00:47:09.080
going to Muslim events or simply talking

899
00:47:09.080 --> 00:47:10.360
to the Muslim leader in the community.

900
00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:12.920
Say, "Hey, just wanna let you know that"

901
00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:16.120
"I'm in the community
providing social work"

902
00:47:16.120 --> 00:47:18.380
"at this particular organization."

903
00:47:18.380 --> 00:47:21.920
"We do get a lot of Muslims
from your particular"

904
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:24.420
"Mosque or your particular community,"

905
00:47:24.420 --> 00:47:26.600
"And I just wanna let you
know what we do here."

906
00:47:26.600 --> 00:47:29.820
"And is it possible that
perhaps I could speak sometime,"

907
00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:32.420
"Or you could tell your
congregation sometime about our"

908
00:47:32.420 --> 00:47:37.280
"specific services, so they
know when to call on us?"

909
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:39.520
Very simple and also
creates relationships.

910
00:47:39.520 --> 00:47:41.120
You might even find
someone there who would

911
00:47:41.120 --> 00:47:45.760
be a good resource for you
should you ever need it.

912
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:50.580
And then, a structural point, increase the

913
00:47:50.580 --> 00:47:53.000
diversity of the care providers.

914
00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:56.080
If you are caring for primarily a dominant

915
00:47:56.080 --> 00:47:59.940
Muslim population, see if
you can either bring in

916
00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:02.960
some Muslim staff or at
least Muslim volunteers

917
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:07.400
that can help bring in
that aspect of advocacy

918
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:11.740
that may be lacking from the
structural point of view.

919
00:48:11.740 --> 00:48:16.740
And, finally, engage Muslim specialists.

920
00:48:17.060 --> 00:48:19.460
I mentioned earlier that Imams may not be

921
00:48:19.460 --> 00:48:22.880
the best person all the
time to connect with,

922
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.620
that doesn't mean don't connect with them,

923
00:48:24.620 --> 00:48:27.780
but if it's a specific counselling issue,

924
00:48:27.780 --> 00:48:30.200
I would actually more recommend

925
00:48:30.200 --> 00:48:34.820
engaging professional Muslim Chaplains.

926
00:48:34.820 --> 00:48:35.880
And that's not just a personal plug,

927
00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:38.460
I'm a professional Muslim Chaplain,

928
00:48:38.460 --> 00:48:42.540
but it's been my experience
that Muslim Chaplains

929
00:48:42.540 --> 00:48:46.480
have the faith base and also
the social science background

930
00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:51.400
to really help integrate
counselling issues.

931
00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:53.480
Especially ones that are
compex like the one I mentioned

932
00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:56.140
concerning the individual who was unsure

933
00:48:56.140 --> 00:49:01.140
about whether or not to fast
and she had an eating disorder.

934
00:49:01.300 --> 00:49:05.980
So, Muslim Chaplains
are uniquely trained to

935
00:49:05.980 --> 00:49:08.340
care for and educate others about the

936
00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:10.380
spiritual needs of Muslim clients.

937
00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:13.040
And I have here an
individual I was speaking

938
00:49:13.040 --> 00:49:16.740
very highly of earlier, this
is Dr. Nuziale Iskanderova.

939
00:49:16.740 --> 00:49:21.140
Who is just an inspiring
figure for me, personally.

940
00:49:21.140 --> 00:49:25.180
She teaches right now at a manual college

941
00:49:25.180 --> 00:49:29.180
which is part of University of Toronto

942
00:49:29.180 --> 00:49:34.020
and she has just done so much amazing work

943
00:49:34.020 --> 00:49:37.240
in regards to contributing to the research

944
00:49:37.240 --> 00:49:41.040
and understanding of the
care of Muslim clients.

945
00:49:41.040 --> 00:49:45.160
So, really, a great
person to connect with.

946
00:49:45.160 --> 00:49:49.200
So, after all that being said,

947
00:49:49.200 --> 00:49:51.680
it's a lot to take in,
it is a presentation,

948
00:49:51.680 --> 00:49:55.580
you knew what you were getting into.

949
00:49:55.580 --> 00:49:57.080
I would like to now enter into

950
00:49:57.080 --> 00:49:59.180
the open discussion part of it.

951
00:49:59.180 --> 00:50:01.920
Okay, so we've got a
good amount of time now,

952
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:04.320
where I hope we can
engage in some of those

953
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:07.720
questions that I asked you
to think about beforehand.

954
00:50:07.720 --> 00:50:09.980
And any sort of questions
that have come up

955
00:50:09.980 --> 00:50:12.420
during the course of this presentation.

956
00:50:12.420 --> 00:50:15.940
And, I'm just gonna put a summary of these

957
00:50:15.940 --> 00:50:19.480
points up, just so they're
there for reference, okay?

958
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:21.900
So, yeah?

959
00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:25.300
- [Woman] I thank you, I
liked the way you organized

960
00:50:25.300 --> 00:50:27.620
it, it was easier to follow.
- Excellent.

961
00:50:27.620 --> 00:50:32.240
- [Woman] My question
is in regards to when

962
00:50:32.240 --> 00:50:36.640
you mentioned asking the client how

963
00:50:36.640 --> 00:50:41.640
they identify in their personal connection

964
00:50:42.260 --> 00:50:44.380
to the culture, to the religion.

965
00:50:44.380 --> 00:50:48.380
And I was wondering since you said

966
00:50:48.380 --> 00:50:50.900
there's a higher expectation of your

967
00:50:50.900 --> 00:50:53.180
personal knowledge, if
it ever comes across

968
00:50:53.180 --> 00:50:55.900
in a way, from the client's point of view,

969
00:50:55.900 --> 00:50:59.840
like, "uh oh", I have to explain it

970
00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:02.300
in a good enough kind of way.

971
00:51:02.300 --> 00:51:04.660
I'm just imagining, you know,

972
00:51:04.660 --> 00:51:07.960
because of your knowledge of it,

973
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:09.360
I don't know if I'm being clear with that.

974
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:11.340
- Are you speaking about
a Muslim, non-Muslim

975
00:51:11.340 --> 00:51:13.860
relationship or a Muslim,
Muslim therapeutic relationship.

976
00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:16.780
- [Woman] Muslim, Muslim,
like with you specifically.

977
00:51:16.780 --> 00:51:19.120
Like, when you ask
them, "What's your way?"

978
00:51:19.120 --> 00:51:22.300
I almost feel like that, for a client,

979
00:51:22.300 --> 00:51:24.400
I'm wondering if this
has ever been the case,

980
00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:26.140
in a way, you put them on the spot.

981
00:51:26.140 --> 00:51:28.380
So, now you need to respond in a way

982
00:51:28.380 --> 00:51:32.200
that, you know, holds true for somebody.

983
00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:35.760
- Well, and perhaps you're
hinting at this as well,

984
00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:39.180
is there's perhaps a power dynamic.

985
00:51:39.180 --> 00:51:41.820
Whether we like it or not,
there's a power dynamic

986
00:51:41.820 --> 00:51:43.840
within the therapeutic relationship.

987
00:51:43.840 --> 00:51:46.540
We could be as patient centered
as possible, as we'd like,

988
00:51:46.540 --> 00:51:48.500
but ultimately, we're the professional,

989
00:51:48.500 --> 00:51:50.500
they're the client, right?

990
00:51:50.500 --> 00:51:52.680
Now, there's another
dynamic that comes into play

991
00:51:52.680 --> 00:51:55.080
when the person shares
the same faith as you.

992
00:51:55.080 --> 00:51:57.340
That's different, I think
is what you're getting at,

993
00:51:57.340 --> 00:51:59.600
from when someone shares
a different faith.

994
00:51:59.600 --> 00:52:02.940
The idea of, can they feel comfortable

995
00:52:02.940 --> 00:52:06.740
enough to disagree with me, right?

996
00:52:06.740 --> 00:52:11.740
So, you know, I express a
particular faith perspective.

997
00:52:13.520 --> 00:52:16.280
Another individual who's Muslim presents

998
00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:17.760
a different faith perspective.

999
00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:19.360
Do they feel comfortable enough

1000
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:21.620
to tell me that different
faith perspective?

1001
00:52:21.620 --> 00:52:23.620
Do they feel comfortable
enough to tell me,

1002
00:52:23.620 --> 00:52:27.080
"Actually, no I don't
really believe that."

1003
00:52:27.080 --> 00:52:29.240
And I think that's
something that has to be

1004
00:52:29.240 --> 00:52:31.960
negotiated within each
individual relationship.

1005
00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:35.680
That the individuals who
I've provided care for

1006
00:52:35.680 --> 00:52:38.920
I try to be always aware that if I come in

1007
00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:42.660
and they are Muslim, that I make sure

1008
00:52:42.660 --> 00:52:46.340
that I'm not in the advising mode.

1009
00:52:46.340 --> 00:52:48.500
In fact, that's my approach generally,

1010
00:52:48.500 --> 00:52:53.500
but my own particular approach

1011
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:57.960
is more relational, so
I try to create rapport,

1012
00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:02.960
and then if they ask
me, "What do you think?"

1013
00:53:03.140 --> 00:53:07.460
Well, actually, what do you
think? I turn it right back.

1014
00:53:07.460 --> 00:53:11.440
Because I recognize that dynamic.

1015
00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:12.500
An individual might look to me

1016
00:53:12.500 --> 00:53:14.900
and say, "Okay, you've studied Islam,"

1017
00:53:14.900 --> 00:53:17.520
"you probably know the
answer to this question."

1018
00:53:17.520 --> 00:53:22.520
Well, that's one of the
reasons I love Chaplaincy work.

1019
00:53:22.680 --> 00:53:26.260
It's because I'm not here to define

1020
00:53:26.260 --> 00:53:29.940
what is or is not Islam for this person.

1021
00:53:29.940 --> 00:53:33.140
I'm here to help them recover from ailment

1022
00:53:33.140 --> 00:53:38.140
physical, medical, social,
spiritual is ailing them.

1023
00:53:38.740 --> 00:53:42.460
And yeah, that's my dynamic there,

1024
00:53:42.460 --> 00:53:45.460
there's no way around it, you just have to

1025
00:53:45.460 --> 00:53:47.900
be as understanding as possible.

1026
00:53:47.900 --> 00:53:49.680
Does that answer your question?

1027
00:53:49.680 --> 00:53:53.280
And, before we continue, did
everyone hear her question?

1028
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:57.220
Was it loud enough? Okay, thanks.

1029
00:53:57.220 --> 00:53:58.720
And feel free to raise your hand,

1030
00:53:58.720 --> 00:53:59.380
whoever else wants to, yeah?

1031
00:54:00.380 --> 00:54:05.380
(Audience member incomprehensible)

1032
00:54:09.203 --> 00:54:11.203
- [Woman #2] And you can
tell me if it doesn't apply

1033
00:54:11.203 --> 00:54:14.023
to what we're talking about.

1034
00:54:14.023 --> 00:54:15.574
- Well, if I can't answer
it I'll tell you that.

1035
00:54:15.574 --> 00:54:19.654
- [Woman #2] It's more
about talking with people

1036
00:54:19.654 --> 00:54:22.294
who aren't as familiar
with Muslim cultural

1037
00:54:22.294 --> 00:54:27.114
and helping them (continues
incomprehensibly).

1038
00:54:27.114 --> 00:54:30.174
But you touched a little bit how

1039
00:54:30.174 --> 00:54:33.494
Muslim clients so often feel they're

1040
00:54:33.494 --> 00:54:36.874
included in the perception
of possible terrorists

1041
00:54:36.874 --> 00:54:41.234
and, you know, so many examples of the

1042
00:54:41.234 --> 00:54:44.954
discrimination that Muslims face.

1043
00:54:44.954 --> 00:54:48.754
So what I find tricky when talking with

1044
00:54:48.754 --> 00:54:52.374
people about that and
about what they face,

1045
00:54:52.374 --> 00:54:57.374
is this sort of duality
that (incomprehensible).

1046
00:55:04.514 --> 00:55:06.937
And they're not separate from that,

1047
00:55:06.937 --> 00:55:08.877
because they're all apart of it.

1048
00:55:08.877 --> 00:55:12.817
And, I guess, my question would be how you

1049
00:55:12.817 --> 00:55:15.337
would frame that for somebody,

1050
00:55:15.337 --> 00:55:17.937
even though that's not really
not about Muslim clients,

1051
00:55:17.937 --> 00:55:21.057
but I guess it sorts of
helps us to have a framework,

1052
00:55:21.057 --> 00:55:23.017
for how you would frame
that for somebody that just

1053
00:55:23.017 --> 00:55:25.607
because they come out of this
culture, doesn't mean that

1054
00:55:25.607 --> 00:55:30.607
everybody represents
that same fundamentalism.

1055
00:55:32.249 --> 00:55:35.840
- So, I'm just a little bit
confused about how you're using

1056
00:55:35.840 --> 00:55:40.120
fundamentalism in conjunction
with collectivism.

1057
00:55:40.120 --> 00:55:44.060
Can you just differentiate
a little bit clearer?

1058
00:55:44.060 --> 00:55:46.520
- [Woman #2] Well, because
I think there's a lot of

1059
00:55:46.520 --> 00:55:51.520
suspicion amongst Americans,
non-Muslim Americans

1060
00:55:53.340 --> 00:55:58.260
with the collectivism ideas
that I think that means.

1061
00:55:58.260 --> 00:56:00.400
How can you separate
out that not everybody

1062
00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:05.040
is a terrorist that
everybody thinks of Muslims?

1063
00:56:05.040 --> 00:56:09.860
- Well, I think that it's perhaps we have

1064
00:56:09.860 --> 00:56:12.180
a different understanding
of collectivism here,

1065
00:56:12.180 --> 00:56:13.920
and let me clarify how I understand it

1066
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:15.700
and see if that helps you at all.

1067
00:56:15.700 --> 00:56:19.340
Collectivism in this sense that,

1068
00:56:19.340 --> 00:56:24.120
(stammering)

1069
00:56:25.080 --> 00:56:27.682
let me put it this way, a collectivist

1070
00:56:27.682 --> 00:56:30.922
would look at their
identity as part of a whole.

1071
00:56:30.922 --> 00:56:32.662
Whereas an individualist
would focus on their

1072
00:56:32.662 --> 00:56:36.362
identity as one within,
and so greater focus on

1073
00:56:36.362 --> 00:56:39.342
personal agency over community agency.

1074
00:56:39.342 --> 00:56:41.522
The way you're talking about it,

1075
00:56:41.522 --> 00:56:46.522
I'm just a little bit
confused about how terrorism

1076
00:56:48.122 --> 00:56:51.762
or how that's related to
a collectivist culture.

1077
00:56:51.762 --> 00:56:56.762
(Woman rephrases question
incomprehensibly)

1078
00:57:19.842 --> 00:57:22.742
- The way I'm hearing your use of group,

1079
00:57:22.742 --> 00:57:24.942
I'm hearing it more in
the sense of stereotyping.

1080
00:57:24.942 --> 00:57:26.342
- [Woman #2] Yes, yes.

1081
00:57:26.342 --> 00:57:29.062
- Okay, so you mean it more
in the sense of stereotyping.

1082
00:57:29.062 --> 00:57:32.022
- [Woman #2] Yes, but how
do you break that down?

1083
00:57:32.022 --> 00:57:35.282
- So, how do you break the stereotypes?

1084
00:57:35.282 --> 00:57:40.102
You know, again I think it comes down to

1085
00:57:40.102 --> 00:57:44.262
really being open to the
individual themselves.

1086
00:57:44.262 --> 00:57:47.482
But, before that, first go
back to the first thing,

1087
00:57:47.482 --> 00:57:52.482
what do we bring into the conversation?

1088
00:57:52.642 --> 00:57:55.562
Before dealing with the
stereotypes that the client

1089
00:57:55.562 --> 00:58:00.102
might have, what do we
bring into the conversation?

1090
00:58:00.102 --> 00:58:04.062
I think that there's a
real legitimate cause

1091
00:58:04.062 --> 00:58:07.582
for discussion about
how we as care providers

1092
00:58:07.582 --> 00:58:10.762
understand and our impact
by the world around us.

1093
00:58:10.762 --> 00:58:13.802
I think, in fact, that
perhaps as a necessity,

1094
00:58:13.802 --> 00:58:17.882
if not definitely a necessity,
that we as care providers

1095
00:58:17.882 --> 00:58:21.522
for any significant issues that
are impacting upon ourselves

1096
00:58:21.522 --> 00:58:24.522
and potentially impacting upon
the therapeutic relationship,

1097
00:58:24.522 --> 00:58:28.282
we become self aware of how we
might be implicitly imposing

1098
00:58:28.282 --> 00:58:32.802
that upon individuals from that culture.

1099
00:58:32.802 --> 00:58:35.142
- [Woman #2] I guess what
I'm talking about then

1100
00:58:35.142 --> 00:58:39.322
(incomprehensible) how you
talk to other care providers

1101
00:58:39.322 --> 00:58:42.142
when you feel that what they bring is

1102
00:58:42.142 --> 00:58:44.742
perpetrating some of the stereotypes.

1103
00:58:44.742 --> 00:58:48.852
- So when they fit the stereotype,

1104
00:58:48.852 --> 00:58:50.232
is that what you're saying?

1105
00:58:50.232 --> 00:58:52.091
So, when they fit the
stereotype, what do we do?

1106
00:58:52.091 --> 00:58:57.091
- [Woman #2] No, no, (stammers)
when the care providers

1107
00:58:58.671 --> 00:59:01.827
are stereotyping their clients.

1108
00:59:01.827 --> 00:59:05.087
How do you point that out?

1109
00:59:05.087 --> 00:59:08.887
(incomprehensible)

1110
00:59:09.837 --> 00:59:10.881
- [Woman #3] I think the question,

1111
00:59:10.881 --> 00:59:13.542
if I can rephrase it correctly,
let me know if I'm not,

1112
00:59:13.542 --> 00:59:16.261
is almost how to be a good ally?

1113
00:59:16.261 --> 00:59:18.182
- Okay.

1114
00:59:18.182 --> 00:59:20.324
- [Woman #3] So how,
when you see something

1115
00:59:20.324 --> 00:59:22.384
going on that looks problematic,

1116
00:59:22.384 --> 00:59:27.364
you bring it up in a way that
somebody else understands.

1117
00:59:27.364 --> 00:59:29.063
- Is that?

1118
00:59:29.063 --> 00:59:30.843
- [Woman #2] I didn't hear what she said.

1119
00:59:30.843 --> 00:59:33.184
- She said how you can be an advocate

1120
00:59:33.184 --> 00:59:36.364
for the individual, an
ally for the individual.

1121
00:59:36.364 --> 00:59:40.984
I think, either way, and forgive me for

1122
00:59:40.984 --> 00:59:45.984
not fully understanding
your question at first.

1123
00:59:47.744 --> 00:59:51.074
Hold a second, something just happened.

1124
00:59:55.084 --> 00:59:58.584
Oh, my prayer just went
off, which means those who

1125
00:59:58.584 --> 01:00:03.004
are fasting today, you can
break your fast right now.

1126
01:00:03.004 --> 01:00:06.403
So, the end of the day,
sunset has just come in.

1127
01:00:06.403 --> 01:00:07.864
I was gonna try and let you listen to

1128
01:00:07.864 --> 01:00:10.923
the call to prayer, but it stopped.

1129
01:00:10.923 --> 01:00:15.864
So, again back to your question,

1130
01:00:15.864 --> 01:00:18.623
I'm gonna admit that I'm
having a difficult time

1131
01:00:18.623 --> 01:00:20.664
understanding it and I don't know quite

1132
01:00:20.664 --> 01:00:23.003
how best to answer it.

1133
01:00:27.503 --> 01:00:32.503
- [Woman #3] Your slide on differentiating

1134
01:00:32.984 --> 01:00:37.984
between collectivist cultures
and individualist cultures

1135
01:00:38.884 --> 01:00:43.884
I think is very important
and much more important

1136
01:00:44.743 --> 01:00:49.743
to American born and bred
students of social workers.

1137
01:00:52.243 --> 01:00:57.243
While I was studying social
work (incomprehensible)

1138
01:01:03.520 --> 01:01:08.520
Mexican-American culture compared to

1139
01:01:09.041 --> 01:01:14.041
general United States
(incomprehensible) culture.

1140
01:01:14.381 --> 01:01:19.381
This issue between collectivist culture

1141
01:01:21.040 --> 01:01:26.040
and American individualist
culture (incomprehensible)

1142
01:01:31.801 --> 01:01:36.801
and if you think about certain
Latin American countries

1143
01:01:38.881 --> 01:01:43.881
(incomprehensible)
there's some similarities.

1144
01:01:46.720 --> 01:01:51.720
So, I think that the really
important lesson here

1145
01:01:53.120 --> 01:01:57.361
is the fact that people
growing up in the United States

1146
01:01:57.361 --> 01:02:00.840
have been swimming in this
individualist culture.

1147
01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:05.560
Too much, too deeply, we
don't even understand it.

1148
01:02:05.560 --> 01:02:10.381
We are so individualists,
we don't understand

1149
01:02:10.381 --> 01:02:15.381
a culture (incomprehensible).

1150
01:02:26.721 --> 01:02:29.520
Maybe there are people here who are better

1151
01:02:29.520 --> 01:02:31.761
informed than I am on this point,

1152
01:02:31.761 --> 01:02:34.281
but I think it's very
important when you talk about

1153
01:02:34.281 --> 01:02:38.560
American social workers needing to get

1154
01:02:38.560 --> 01:02:41.861
informed about who they are.

1155
01:02:41.861 --> 01:02:44.781
We can help each other with this.

1156
01:02:44.781 --> 01:02:49.781
(incomprehensible)

1157
01:03:21.740 --> 01:03:25.120
- I think your point, and
thank you for raising it again,

1158
01:03:25.120 --> 01:03:29.320
relates to the, what I
would consider to be,

1159
01:03:29.320 --> 01:03:33.961
the most essential aspect
for the caring professional.

1160
01:03:33.961 --> 01:03:36.301
Is you have to be self aware.

1161
01:03:36.301 --> 01:03:40.661
There's the term, safe
and effective use of self.

1162
01:03:40.661 --> 01:03:43.161
- [Woman #4] But you
can't do it if you're--

1163
01:03:43.161 --> 01:03:45.241
- If you're ignorant.

1164
01:03:45.241 --> 01:03:48.891
(Woman #4 incomprehensible)

1165
01:03:48.891 --> 01:03:53.891
I'm talking about just the
therapist by him or herself.

1166
01:03:55.675 --> 01:04:00.675
That if you're walking into
any therapeutic relationship

1167
01:04:01.895 --> 01:04:03.635
or attempting to have any
therapeutic relationship

1168
01:04:03.635 --> 01:04:06.455
and you're not aware of what prejudice is,

1169
01:04:06.455 --> 01:04:08.495
of what assumption, what judgements,

1170
01:04:08.495 --> 01:04:11.175
you bring into that relationship,

1171
01:04:11.175 --> 01:04:14.055
then yes, as I'm hearing you say,

1172
01:04:14.055 --> 01:04:17.715
you could be doing harm,
you're not even aware.

1173
01:04:17.715 --> 01:04:21.195
That's why I, and from what I understand,

1174
01:04:21.195 --> 01:04:23.275
there's an emphasis
within the program here

1175
01:04:23.275 --> 01:04:27.795
upon self awareness, take it seriously.

1176
01:04:27.795 --> 01:04:32.795
- [Woman #4] Understand
what collectivist culture

1177
01:04:33.055 --> 01:04:35.615
is like and look at it,
not just with Islam,

1178
01:04:35.615 --> 01:04:37.395
but with many different cultures

1179
01:04:37.395 --> 01:04:42.395
and what individualist culture is.

1180
01:04:43.395 --> 01:04:46.015
Got to apply it academically because

1181
01:04:46.015 --> 01:04:50.635
too many American social workers

1182
01:04:50.635 --> 01:04:53.995
grew up as an individualist.

1183
01:04:53.995 --> 01:04:57.846
- Yeah, I think we can even have a further

1184
01:04:57.846 --> 01:05:00.878
discussion just about
the lack of awareness

1185
01:05:00.878 --> 01:05:03.778
about our assumptions as Americans

1186
01:05:03.778 --> 01:05:06.218
that we place upon the rest of the world,

1187
01:05:06.218 --> 01:05:08.778
no matter what our own
personal background is.

1188
01:05:08.778 --> 01:05:11.398
There's a book which I'd recommend,

1189
01:05:11.398 --> 01:05:13.718
Oh, so two points, I'll come
to you in just a second.

1190
01:05:13.718 --> 01:05:18.718
That talked about how often times

1191
01:05:20.358 --> 01:05:22.838
American foreign policy and
perspectives on the world

1192
01:05:22.838 --> 01:05:25.978
seize America, the United States,

1193
01:05:25.978 --> 01:05:29.198
as almost like politically neutral.

1194
01:05:29.198 --> 01:05:34.198
We have no ideology,
we're neutral ground here.

1195
01:05:34.598 --> 01:05:38.398
We're the exception to the ideologues.

1196
01:05:38.398 --> 01:05:43.398
So, it's always about
what makes them different,

1197
01:05:43.598 --> 01:05:45.218
rather than what differences we bring.

1198
01:05:45.218 --> 01:05:47.958
So, this is kind of like taking the whole

1199
01:05:47.958 --> 01:05:50.598
therapeutic relationship,
but on a global scale.

1200
01:05:50.598 --> 01:05:52.478
So, we as United States need to

1201
01:05:52.478 --> 01:05:55.318
become self aware as well.

1202
01:05:55.318 --> 01:05:58.498
I saw your hand first.

1203
01:05:58.498 --> 01:06:01.938
- [Woman #5] This might be
a very (mumbles) question,

1204
01:06:01.938 --> 01:06:06.938
but as someone who educated
myself (incomprehensible),

1205
01:06:07.258 --> 01:06:12.258
I'm just wondering if it's
appropriate to (incomprehensible)

1206
01:06:14.298 --> 01:06:18.278
To wish someone a happy Eid al-Fitr

1207
01:06:18.278 --> 01:06:23.098
or something or even greet
someone in a traditional way.

1208
01:06:23.098 --> 01:06:25.478
I don't know if this is the best for that,

1209
01:06:25.478 --> 01:06:29.278
but I worked with a client this past term

1210
01:06:29.278 --> 01:06:31.898
who, this is something
we talked about a lot,

1211
01:06:31.898 --> 01:06:35.038
so I'm wondering if you've seen working

1212
01:06:35.038 --> 01:06:40.038
with Muslim clients (incomprehensible).

1213
01:06:45.098 --> 01:06:50.098
- You know, I don't always say
(speaks Arabic) which is the

1214
01:06:50.518 --> 01:06:54.758
traditional way of greeting
another Muslim right away.

1215
01:06:54.758 --> 01:06:59.758
I want the person to almost,
in a way, feel invited.

1216
01:07:02.618 --> 01:07:06.138
So, really, and my context is different,

1217
01:07:06.138 --> 01:07:11.138
because basically, unlike
any other health professional

1218
01:07:12.338 --> 01:07:14.218
within the hospital
setting, I as a Chaplain

1219
01:07:14.218 --> 01:07:18.618
can enter into any room, I can
enter into any patient's room

1220
01:07:18.618 --> 01:07:20.738
and I could strike up a conversation.

1221
01:07:20.738 --> 01:07:23.918
I don't need to have a referral
like other professionals do.

1222
01:07:23.918 --> 01:07:25.498
So I'm that much more
sensitive to the fact

1223
01:07:25.498 --> 01:07:30.058
that they may or may not
want my presence there.

1224
01:07:30.058 --> 01:07:33.878
And so I want to engage them
as easy a way as possible.

1225
01:07:33.878 --> 01:07:38.398
'Cause I don't know, maybe
they have been raised Muslim,

1226
01:07:38.398 --> 01:07:40.578
they don't self identify that way.

1227
01:07:40.578 --> 01:07:42.878
They could have traumatic
background experience

1228
01:07:42.878 --> 01:07:47.878
with Muslims in their life,
and so I come in with a trigger

1229
01:07:48.058 --> 01:07:53.058
you know, (speaks Arabic),
and all the sudden,

1230
01:07:53.118 --> 01:07:58.118
I'm adding more trauma, so like,

1231
01:07:59.058 --> 01:08:01.238
you answered your own question.

1232
01:08:01.238 --> 01:08:02.658
(Woman #4 incomprehensible)

1233
01:08:02.658 --> 01:08:04.398
(audience laughs)

1234
01:08:04.398 --> 01:08:09.218
So each client, each person is different.

1235
01:08:09.218 --> 01:08:11.918
And just negotiate that with each one.

1236
01:08:11.918 --> 01:08:15.758
But good sensitivity.

1237
01:08:15.758 --> 01:08:18.418
- [Woman #5] I just wanted
to go back to the point

1238
01:08:18.418 --> 01:08:21.678
that were being discussed earlier about

1239
01:08:21.678 --> 01:08:24.558
trying to embrace or invite them.

1240
01:08:24.558 --> 01:08:28.758
Think about collective perspective

1241
01:08:28.758 --> 01:08:33.758
(incomprehensible) and to
go back to your first point

1242
01:08:36.318 --> 01:08:38.738
was your first slide about adversity

1243
01:08:38.738 --> 01:08:41.238
within the Muslim
community, or that there is

1244
01:08:41.238 --> 01:08:45.158
no one Muslim (incomprehensible).

1245
01:08:45.158 --> 01:08:47.858
That it is very possible to be of a

1246
01:08:47.858 --> 01:08:52.298
collective mindset and
collective perspective,

1247
01:08:52.298 --> 01:08:55.058
it doesn't mean anything if the assumption

1248
01:08:55.058 --> 01:09:00.058
(incomprehensible)

1249
01:09:48.058 --> 01:09:51.098
- And at the most basic level
it's a family collective.

1250
01:09:51.098 --> 01:09:54.718
So, just a clarifying example,

1251
01:09:54.718 --> 01:09:58.818
you have an individual who feels guilty

1252
01:09:58.818 --> 01:10:03.818
for not wanting to be a
particular profession.

1253
01:10:05.978 --> 01:10:10.218
But, his or her parents
are really encouraging

1254
01:10:10.218 --> 01:10:12.938
him or her to be this profession.

1255
01:10:12.938 --> 01:10:15.698
Now, from a Western
individualistic perspective,

1256
01:10:15.698 --> 01:10:19.058
of the providing sense of personal agency,

1257
01:10:19.058 --> 01:10:22.518
so they can do what their dream is,

1258
01:10:22.518 --> 01:10:25.338
despite the difficulties in the home life.

1259
01:10:25.338 --> 01:10:28.898
How can you become more self confident?

1260
01:10:28.898 --> 01:10:33.898
So, be who you are, right?

1261
01:10:34.138 --> 01:10:36.358
But, from a collectivist culture,

1262
01:10:36.358 --> 01:10:39.018
you're actually adding fuel to the fire.

1263
01:10:39.018 --> 01:10:40.918
And what might be
actually more beneficial,

1264
01:10:40.918 --> 01:10:43.158
and here's where implicit Western values

1265
01:10:43.158 --> 01:10:47.258
can be implied, for some here
when they heard the statement,

1266
01:10:47.258 --> 01:10:51.318
they might have assumed that
that must be the correct way.

1267
01:10:51.318 --> 01:10:54.478
If so, that's an assumption.

1268
01:10:54.478 --> 01:10:56.858
Because it's a value, it's a value that

1269
01:10:56.858 --> 01:11:00.838
many of us share as Western people.

1270
01:11:00.838 --> 01:11:04.718
But the other value that
the collective good.

1271
01:11:04.718 --> 01:11:06.818
Right, the parents want
the person to do this

1272
01:11:06.818 --> 01:11:09.318
because they've struggled
their whole lives.

1273
01:11:09.318 --> 01:11:10.858
They want to make sure
that their son or daughter

1274
01:11:10.858 --> 01:11:15.858
is successful, is able to
care for their own family.

1275
01:11:16.238 --> 01:11:18.958
Whatever the case might be.

1276
01:11:18.958 --> 01:11:20.858
But, that's not being
taken into consideration

1277
01:11:20.858 --> 01:11:25.038
if your just focusing on personal agency.

1278
01:11:27.558 --> 01:11:29.198
- [Woman #6] Do you see common differences

1279
01:11:29.198 --> 01:11:31.558
between Muslims who were raised in the US

1280
01:11:31.558 --> 01:11:33.938
and Muslims who were
raised in the Middle East?

1281
01:11:33.938 --> 01:11:35.238
- Oh, yeah.

1282
01:11:35.238 --> 01:11:37.318
(Woman #6 incomprehensible)

1283
01:11:37.318 --> 01:11:42.278
Well, I don't wanna essentialize
too much concerning that.

1284
01:11:42.278 --> 01:11:46.228
There are differences.

1285
01:11:49.668 --> 01:11:52.378
I guess the best way to respond to that

1286
01:11:52.378 --> 01:11:55.878
would be if there are particular aspects.

1287
01:11:55.878 --> 01:11:57.878
You know, how about this, maybe you didn't

1288
01:11:57.878 --> 01:11:59.378
expect I'd go this way.

1289
01:11:59.378 --> 01:12:02.348
Yeah, one likes shawarma a lot more.

1290
01:12:04.938 --> 01:12:08.598
That's the Middle East one
if you didn't get that.

1291
01:12:08.598 --> 01:12:13.598
So, there are differences.

1292
01:12:13.698 --> 01:12:15.818
It could be in the way they dress.

1293
01:12:15.818 --> 01:12:20.238
Or the type of profession
this particular culture

1294
01:12:20.238 --> 01:12:24.718
is more encouraged to engage in.

1295
01:12:24.718 --> 01:12:28.298
Yeah, I guess I kind of feel uncomfortable

1296
01:12:28.298 --> 01:12:31.778
providing anything
specific, except for that

1297
01:12:31.778 --> 01:12:33.958
when you're engaging with someone,

1298
01:12:33.958 --> 01:12:37.618
just recognizing that
there are differences.

1299
01:12:37.618 --> 01:12:40.358
And, if you look actually in
the Counselling Muslims book,

1300
01:12:40.358 --> 01:12:43.218
they do go more in depth in some of this,

1301
01:12:43.218 --> 01:12:45.138
but I don't wanna provide anything myself

1302
01:12:45.138 --> 01:12:49.658
that might be incorrect
or too centralized.

1303
01:12:49.658 --> 01:12:51.598
But it is a good question.

1304
01:12:51.598 --> 01:12:53.858
In the back?

1305
01:12:53.858 --> 01:12:57.378
- [Man] I was wondering if
you could elaborate more

1306
01:12:57.378 --> 01:13:00.918
on what we might be
able to do to recognize

1307
01:13:00.918 --> 01:13:03.478
Islamophobia in ourselves
and also addressing

1308
01:13:03.478 --> 01:13:06.178
Islamophobia within
ourselves, within maybe

1309
01:13:06.178 --> 01:13:08.158
colleagues that we find
ourselves working with,

1310
01:13:08.158 --> 01:13:10.158
and also in clients, whether the clients

1311
01:13:10.158 --> 01:13:12.338
are Muslim or non-Muslim, I feel it may be

1312
01:13:12.338 --> 01:13:14.458
important to know how do I talk to people

1313
01:13:14.458 --> 01:13:18.938
about Islamophobia (incomprehensible).

1314
01:13:18.938 --> 01:13:20.398
- That's a really good question,

1315
01:13:20.398 --> 01:13:22.278
I'm glad that you asked it.

1316
01:13:22.278 --> 01:13:25.058
I think that one of
the most effective ways

1317
01:13:25.058 --> 01:13:29.398
to bring about change and certainly very

1318
01:13:29.398 --> 01:13:34.398
significant issues is
draw it to the person.

1319
01:13:34.758 --> 01:13:37.618
Make it about the heart, in a sense if you

1320
01:13:37.618 --> 01:13:40.858
really wanna see some significant change,

1321
01:13:40.858 --> 01:13:43.618
invite some Muslims here on this

1322
01:13:43.618 --> 01:13:45.278
campus or in this community to talk about

1323
01:13:45.278 --> 01:13:47.998
what it feels like to be discriminated.

1324
01:13:47.998 --> 01:13:51.898
And start from there.

1325
01:13:54.898 --> 01:13:58.258
Now you've added a face to discrimination.

1326
01:13:58.258 --> 01:14:00.618
The impact.

1327
01:14:00.618 --> 01:14:03.958
And if we as a community
can understand the impact

1328
01:14:03.958 --> 01:14:07.538
of Islamophobia for Muslims
living in our communities,

1329
01:14:07.538 --> 01:14:12.538
in our neighborhoods, then we have a basis

1330
01:14:13.218 --> 01:14:16.038
for real significant
change, but if we just keep

1331
01:14:16.038 --> 01:14:17.978
talking about theory and so forth,

1332
01:14:17.978 --> 01:14:19.538
we're just gonna stay in our heads.

1333
01:14:19.538 --> 01:14:22.508
We need to get into our hearts.

1334
01:14:25.658 --> 01:14:27.719
Yeah?

1335
01:14:29.689 --> 01:14:31.770
- [Woman #7] I don't know if the Chaplain

1336
01:14:31.770 --> 01:14:34.870
is something that is an American model,

1337
01:14:34.870 --> 01:14:39.870
because from my research
it's (incomprehensible)

1338
01:14:39.950 --> 01:14:41.690
That the healer that they come to,

1339
01:14:41.690 --> 01:14:43.730
it's a different model that they have.

1340
01:14:43.730 --> 01:14:46.810
Sometimes they go to the Imams

1341
01:14:46.810 --> 01:14:50.870
and sometimes they go to what
they call a (incomprehensible)

1342
01:14:50.870 --> 01:14:55.530
But, I was wondering how do you work

1343
01:14:55.530 --> 01:14:58.610
with Muslims from different
countries who come in?

1344
01:14:58.610 --> 01:15:00.770
How do you explain what social workers do,

1345
01:15:00.770 --> 01:15:03.410
or what you do, in terms of your role?

1346
01:15:03.410 --> 01:15:06.350
A healer, or a spiritual counselor

1347
01:15:06.350 --> 01:15:08.410
provider for their health.

1348
01:15:08.410 --> 01:15:10.530
How do you approach that?

1349
01:15:10.530 --> 01:15:12.250
- You know I try to explain it

1350
01:15:12.250 --> 01:15:17.250
through my actions, first of all.

1351
01:15:17.970 --> 01:15:21.070
But, if they do ask me
to elaborate further,

1352
01:15:21.070 --> 01:15:23.470
I try to say it in the
most simplistic terms.

1353
01:15:23.470 --> 01:15:27.750
I'm here to be with you,
to make sure that the care

1354
01:15:27.750 --> 01:15:30.210
that you're provided is more holistic,

1355
01:15:30.210 --> 01:15:34.130
and that your faith and personal values

1356
01:15:34.130 --> 01:15:37.550
are recognized in the
care that you receive.

1357
01:15:39.880 --> 01:15:42.570
Now, that's coming from a Chaplain.

1358
01:15:42.570 --> 01:15:44.550
That's my perspective, that's my approach,

1359
01:15:44.550 --> 01:15:46.070
but social worker is not that far off

1360
01:15:46.070 --> 01:15:48.270
of what I just described there.

1361
01:15:48.270 --> 01:15:53.270
It's just the different emphasis.

1362
01:15:53.470 --> 01:15:55.870
So, within different communities,

1363
01:15:55.870 --> 01:15:58.930
yeah you're going to
see the chaplain model,

1364
01:15:58.930 --> 01:16:02.210
it's based upon the Christian tradition.

1365
01:16:02.210 --> 01:16:06.610
The term itself, and chapel, right?

1366
01:16:06.610 --> 01:16:11.170
Chaplain, well it's rooted
in the Christian tradition,

1367
01:16:11.170 --> 01:16:12.630
you can look it up.

1368
01:16:12.630 --> 01:16:15.630
I'd be happy to discuss
what it means and signifies,

1369
01:16:15.630 --> 01:16:19.310
but it has come to be within North America

1370
01:16:19.310 --> 01:16:23.110
to be a non faith specific designation.

1371
01:16:23.110 --> 01:16:26.630
And, if you think about it this way,

1372
01:16:26.630 --> 01:16:31.550
within Western countries,
there's a greater

1373
01:16:31.550 --> 01:16:34.650
emphasis upon institutionalization.

1374
01:16:34.650 --> 01:16:38.750
So, for example, why do
social workers exist now?

1375
01:16:38.750 --> 01:16:40.270
Do you think that people
like social workers

1376
01:16:40.270 --> 01:16:43.050
did not exist in prior generations?

1377
01:16:43.050 --> 01:16:45.350
Or even Chaplains?

1378
01:16:45.350 --> 01:16:47.830
Of course they did, but this profession

1379
01:16:47.830 --> 01:16:49.210
has been institutionalized.

1380
01:16:49.210 --> 01:16:52.110
These professions have
become institutionalized.

1381
01:16:52.110 --> 01:16:54.810
Why? Well, partly because of the fact

1382
01:16:54.810 --> 01:16:57.830
that communities historically have become

1383
01:16:57.830 --> 01:16:59.930
more and more reliant upon the state,

1384
01:16:59.930 --> 01:17:03.030
rather than the local community.

1385
01:17:03.030 --> 01:17:04.370
Individuals used to turn to people

1386
01:17:04.370 --> 01:17:07.330
within their family, or
within their community

1387
01:17:07.330 --> 01:17:10.470
for their social needs,
for their medical needs,

1388
01:17:10.470 --> 01:17:13.010
for whatever the case might be.

1389
01:17:13.010 --> 01:17:14.750
But, as more and more people become

1390
01:17:14.750 --> 01:17:17.610
reliant upon the state
rather than community,

1391
01:17:17.610 --> 01:17:19.530
people become more individualistic,

1392
01:17:19.530 --> 01:17:21.910
families separate further which is

1393
01:17:21.910 --> 01:17:25.130
the Western effect, right?

1394
01:17:25.130 --> 01:17:27.370
And then the need to fill in the gaps

1395
01:17:27.370 --> 01:17:29.970
that used to be filled
by the family member,

1396
01:17:29.970 --> 01:17:31.950
by the community, now needs to be filled

1397
01:17:31.950 --> 01:17:33.830
by professionals that didn't used

1398
01:17:33.830 --> 01:17:36.770
to technically exist before.

1399
01:17:36.770 --> 01:17:39.450
So, I as a Chaplain,
doesn't mean that Chaplain

1400
01:17:39.450 --> 01:17:43.710
type people didn't exist years ago.

1401
01:17:43.710 --> 01:17:45.750
But now because families are breaking up,

1402
01:17:45.750 --> 01:17:48.030
there's less support,
there's more reliance

1403
01:17:48.030 --> 01:17:51.010
upon institutions to provide care,

1404
01:17:51.010 --> 01:17:55.970
that these professions have
been created to fill in that gap

1405
01:17:55.970 --> 01:17:59.190
And, so you won't see it as
much in non-Western countries,

1406
01:17:59.190 --> 01:18:03.560
because they're still
reliant upon families.

1407
01:18:05.430 --> 01:18:07.910
Any other? We still have a few minutes.

1408
01:18:07.910 --> 01:18:12.910
(Woman #8 incomprehensible)

1409
01:18:47.710 --> 01:18:52.710
So, what I brought with me
are Muslim prayer beads.

1410
01:18:52.910 --> 01:18:55.050
In a way, form what I understand,

1411
01:18:55.050 --> 01:19:00.050
from the way that rosary
is the Catholic traditions,

1412
01:19:00.650 --> 01:19:02.570
is it used very similarly.

1413
01:19:02.570 --> 01:19:07.570
It is a repeated invocation,

1414
01:19:08.270 --> 01:19:12.430
and what makes them distinctly Muslim

1415
01:19:12.430 --> 01:19:14.330
is the number of beads,
just like the rosary

1416
01:19:14.330 --> 01:19:15.570
has a specific number of beads.

1417
01:19:15.570 --> 01:19:17.750
Right, it's divided by the four parts.

1418
01:19:17.750 --> 01:19:21.330
These are divided into three parts.

1419
01:19:21.330 --> 01:19:26.330
33, 33, 33, and then this
would be 99, and then 100.

1420
01:19:33.550 --> 01:19:36.450
And so, the particular invocation,

1421
01:19:36.450 --> 01:19:39.490
the formula, you could put it that way,

1422
01:19:39.490 --> 01:19:44.490
revolves around this number, let's say.

1423
01:19:46.230 --> 01:19:51.170
And so if you wanted to make your own,

1424
01:19:51.170 --> 01:19:53.290
and here's an opportunity to be crafty.

1425
01:19:53.290 --> 01:19:55.970
Like you had a particularly
difficult day of work

1426
01:19:55.970 --> 01:19:58.210
and you're like how can I do something

1427
01:19:58.210 --> 01:20:01.290
that's still helpful to my clients,

1428
01:20:01.290 --> 01:20:03.410
but doesn't involve me having
to talk to another person,

1429
01:20:03.410 --> 01:20:05.970
'cause I am done.

1430
01:20:05.970 --> 01:20:07.790
So that happens, that happens.

1431
01:20:07.790 --> 01:20:12.790
So, sit down, pull out some beads,

1432
01:20:13.190 --> 01:20:16.110
and make Muslim prayer beads.

1433
01:20:16.110 --> 01:20:20.430
You could do it either in
sets of 99 and then 100,

1434
01:20:20.430 --> 01:20:23.370
or you could do it in simply,
and I have another set,

1435
01:20:23.370 --> 01:20:26.210
but no need to carry more than one,

1436
01:20:26.210 --> 01:20:28.330
where you could do it just with 33.

1437
01:20:28.330 --> 01:20:30.830
Which is, you know, the
same thing you could

1438
01:20:30.830 --> 01:20:33.090
do with 33, you just do it three times.

1439
01:20:33.090 --> 01:20:36.910
That's not difficult math there.

1440
01:20:36.910 --> 01:20:41.910
So, you know I think
it's worth noting that

1441
01:20:44.250 --> 01:20:47.010
from an Islamic perspective or traditional

1442
01:20:47.010 --> 01:20:52.010
Islamic perspective, the cure of the soul,

1443
01:20:52.550 --> 01:20:56.787
and again if you look at
what psychotherapy means

1444
01:20:56.787 --> 01:21:00.630
in it's initial Greek
terminology, you know,

1445
01:21:00.630 --> 01:21:05.610
it's cure or care for,
and then psych soul.

1446
01:21:05.610 --> 01:21:09.470
So, pre-Freudian there
was this understanding

1447
01:21:09.470 --> 01:21:12.610
that this human aspect
that we're discussing

1448
01:21:12.610 --> 01:21:16.150
it is a care for that
soul, care for that spirit,

1449
01:21:16.150 --> 01:21:17.290
whatever you wanna call it.

1450
01:21:17.290 --> 01:21:22.290
Post-Freudian, it kind of took
on a different understanding,

1451
01:21:22.430 --> 01:21:26.790
but initially, this way,
it was cure of the soul.

1452
01:21:26.790 --> 01:21:29.870
And so from an Islamic perspective,

1453
01:21:29.870 --> 01:21:32.010
the cure of the soul is heavily

1454
01:21:32.010 --> 01:21:35.410
based upon purification of the heart.

1455
01:21:35.410 --> 01:21:38.210
And prayer beads help those individuals

1456
01:21:38.210 --> 01:21:41.970
who choose to use it, by repeating

1457
01:21:41.970 --> 01:21:43.490
a particular implication that brings

1458
01:21:43.490 --> 01:21:47.030
calmingness to the heart.

1459
01:21:47.030 --> 01:21:49.510
So, it is worth noting that not

1460
01:21:49.510 --> 01:21:52.410
all Muslims use prayer beads,

1461
01:21:52.410 --> 01:21:54.450
and there are Muslims who in fact

1462
01:21:54.450 --> 01:21:58.030
believe that they are heterodox,

1463
01:21:58.030 --> 01:22:00.390
or not part of the tradition.

1464
01:22:00.390 --> 01:22:01.890
You could put it this way,

1465
01:22:01.890 --> 01:22:04.190
protestants they use prayer beads?

1466
01:22:04.190 --> 01:22:06.290
Okay, so there are Muslims who

1467
01:22:06.290 --> 01:22:07.670
also don't use prayer beads as well.

1468
01:22:07.670 --> 01:22:09.670
So, not everyone does, but I don't

1469
01:22:09.670 --> 01:22:12.210
necessarily believe, well I don't wanna,

1470
01:22:12.210 --> 01:22:14.730
So, some will turn it down, others not,

1471
01:22:14.730 --> 01:22:17.070
but I don't think they'll
be mad at you necessarily.

1472
01:22:17.070 --> 01:22:18.750
But if they, don't blame me.

1473
01:22:18.750 --> 01:22:22.190
(audience laughing)

1474
01:22:22.190 --> 01:22:26.130
But we just have five more
minutes before 9 o'clock.

1475
01:22:26.130 --> 01:22:28.710
I'm still welcoming questions,

1476
01:22:28.710 --> 01:22:29.850
but I do wanna take the time to just

1477
01:22:29.850 --> 01:22:33.190
say thank you so much.

1478
01:22:33.190 --> 01:22:34.730
Thank you so much for
caring about this issue,

1479
01:22:34.730 --> 01:22:38.450
for coming out this
evening and learning about

1480
01:22:38.450 --> 01:22:41.930
how to care for your Muslim
neighbors, your Muslim clients.

1481
01:22:41.930 --> 01:22:44.790
Wherever you might be
placed beyond this program

1482
01:22:44.790 --> 01:22:48.970
or presently now, thank you.

1483
01:22:48.970 --> 01:22:52.590
I've been asked to come
down here from Canada

1484
01:22:52.590 --> 01:22:55.270
and I'm particularly very passionate about

1485
01:22:55.270 --> 01:22:58.190
helping care providers to provide the

1486
01:22:58.190 --> 01:23:00.170
most effective care they
can to their clients

1487
01:23:00.170 --> 01:23:03.730
and Muslims in particular,
so thank you so much

1488
01:23:03.730 --> 01:23:07.210
for inviting me down, for
all the staff and faculty

1489
01:23:07.210 --> 01:23:09.730
who made this possible.

1490
01:23:09.730 --> 01:23:12.390
It has really been my honor and pleasure

1491
01:23:12.390 --> 01:23:16.090
to provide care and education for the

1492
01:23:16.090 --> 01:23:20.530
care provider in communities,
potentially globally

1493
01:23:20.530 --> 01:23:23.330
because of the work here in this school.

1494
01:23:23.330 --> 01:23:26.090
So, I wanted to say thank you for that.

1495
01:23:26.090 --> 01:23:31.090
If there are no further questions,

1496
01:23:31.250 --> 01:23:34.230
that can be a close then,
but if you have something

1497
01:23:34.230 --> 01:23:36.650
private or something you
just wanted to talk to me

1498
01:23:36.650 --> 01:23:39.630
in personally about, I'm not
gonna run away after this.

1499
01:23:39.630 --> 01:23:44.630
I have had a long day, so be easy on me,

1500
01:23:44.650 --> 01:23:47.810
but I will stick around
for a little while.

1501
01:23:47.810 --> 01:23:50.050
So, we do have one question.

1502
01:23:50.050 --> 01:23:50.950
- [Woman #9] I was just
wondering if you were

1503
01:23:50.950 --> 01:23:53.310
open to sharing your
e-mail (incomprehensible).

1504
01:23:53.310 --> 01:23:58.090
- Oh, you know what, I did
have an e-mail on this slide,

1505
01:23:58.090 --> 01:24:00.230
but the e-mails gonna be changing soon,

1506
01:24:00.230 --> 01:24:02.850
so I'll just give you my personal e-mail.

1507
01:24:02.850 --> 01:24:05.430
Okay, please don't spam me.

1508
01:24:05.430 --> 01:24:08.390
Sign me up for this or that newsletter.

1509
01:24:08.390 --> 01:24:12.830
Actually I wonder if I
could just type it on here

1510
01:24:12.830 --> 01:24:15.750
and it might be a little easier.

1511
01:24:15.750 --> 01:24:18.970
I don't see a keyboard. Oh, here we go.

1512
01:24:18.970 --> 01:24:23.630
So, this one don't worry about.

1513
01:24:23.630 --> 01:24:25.150
I'm just gonna give you another one.

1514
01:24:25.150 --> 01:24:30.150
j.abraham.long@gmail.com

1515
01:24:30.890 --> 01:24:32.810
So, that's my personal e-mail.

1516
01:24:32.810 --> 01:24:37.810
This is also some recommended readings.

1517
01:24:44.460 --> 01:24:47.312
Oh, that didn't help.

1518
01:24:47.312 --> 01:24:49.832
Okay, right there.

1519
01:24:49.832 --> 01:24:52.032
So, some recommended readings.

1520
01:24:52.032 --> 01:24:54.912
For social workers, it
wouldn't hurt to take

1521
01:24:54.912 --> 01:24:58.252
a look at a article that's called

1522
01:24:58.252 --> 01:25:01.672
Social Work in the House
of Islam by David Hodge.

1523
01:25:01.672 --> 01:25:04.572
It's actually a very good
place to start a social worker.

1524
01:25:04.572 --> 01:25:07.072
Talks about also the policy
aspects of making sure

1525
01:25:07.072 --> 01:25:10.532
that your organization
is culturally sensitive.

1526
01:25:10.532 --> 01:25:13.692
There's my chapter in the book

1527
01:25:13.692 --> 01:25:16.912
Psychotherapy Cure of the Soul.

1528
01:25:16.912 --> 01:25:19.772
The Counselling Muslims
and a couple of others.

1529
01:25:19.772 --> 01:25:21.432
But, there's my e-mail.

1530
01:25:21.432 --> 01:25:22.872
Please do not hesitate to,

1531
01:25:22.872 --> 01:25:26.892
this is my passion,
this is what I live for.

1532
01:25:26.892 --> 01:25:30.652
If I could be of help,
do not hesitate to ask.

1533
01:25:30.652 --> 01:25:32.812
Thank you so much.

1534
01:25:32.812 --> 01:25:34.822
(audience applauding)