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- Thank you, I'm Annemarie Gockel.

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I'm an Assistant Professor at
the School for Social Work.

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I coordinate the
First-Year Practice Course

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and teach in First-Year Practice.

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- And I am Mareika Muszynski

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and I coteach the Racism
in the United States course

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to Second-Year students

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and we are this year's organizers

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of the Anti-Racism Panel.

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We'd like to welcome the

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Smith School for Social Work students,

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faculty, and community members alike

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to this panel presentation.

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- So at Smith our commitment to becoming

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an Anti-Racism Institution is central

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to the mission of the school.

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That is providing education for excellence

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in clinical social work practice.

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This mission is infused at
every level of the school

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including its structure and curriculum.

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This syposium was orignally created

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in response to student
requests for an event

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that could further ground and orient them

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to the Anti-Racism Commitment,

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and has since been institutionalized
as a yearly happening.

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The event is intended to provide

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an opportunity for education and dialogue

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in support of the Anti-Racism Commitment.

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In recent years, students
have in particular asked

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for both tools and models
to help them envision

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the process of taking what they learn

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about Anti-Racism work here at Smith

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out into the field.

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In order to meet this need
for the second year in a row,

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we've invited a group of clinicians,

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each of whom have been Smith students

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at either the Masters
or the Doctoral level,

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to share their efforts and experiences

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in working to dismantle racism

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in their day-to-day clinical practices,

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in different practice settings.

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As you might imagine, sharing
your practice in this way

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is both a profoundly generous

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and a profoundly vulnerable event.

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So I want to express our appreciation

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for the panelists'
willingness to offer us all

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a jumping-off point to examine key issues

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in Anti-Racism work in this way.

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You have at hand brief
summaries of the cases

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that they will present and share with you

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for the purpose of this
evening's discussion

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and we ask that you turn those summaries

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in at the end of this evening's program.

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First-year students
will have an opportunity

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to reflect further on the panel discussion

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in their next practice and group classes

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and will return their evaluations
to their group teachers.

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- Again this year, we have
the great good fortune

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of welcoming Doctor Mike Funk,

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Director of the College Arts and Sciences

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Academic Achievement Program at NYU,

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graduate of the Doctoral Program

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in Social Justice Education at

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the University of Massachusetts, Amherst,

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and long-time Social, SSW Faculty Member,

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teaching the Racism in
the United States course

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and the Dismantling
Institutional Racism courses.

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Mike will introduce our
panelists for this evening,

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explain the set up for this
evening's presentation,

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and moderate the discussion.

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Please welcome him and all our panelists.

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- [Mike] All right!

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(audience and panelists applaud)

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Thank you Annemarie and
Mareika for that warm welcome.

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I don't think I could have
said it better myself.

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and thank you all for coming.

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Some of it, I know it's your second round

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of the Panel Symposium.

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Some of it's your first.

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So I just really appreciate
having the opportunity

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to moderate on this platform

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that enables us to
unpack clinical practice

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through the shared stories of panelists.

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And hopefully it also demonstrates
the power of storytelling

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and before we proceed
though, I do want to say,

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this is the first year I had a chance

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to go through the convocation

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and coming back as my fifth
year I just feel like,

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President Chris used the
word "Intentional Community"

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and I really feel like
that this is something

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that I am really feeling in
the environment this year

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and in the atmosphere.

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I know oftentimes we like
to talk about all the things

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we still need to do or what's going wrong,

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I think that we're doing
a lot of things right

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as a community,

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so when I think of the Pedagogy
and Diversity seminars, that

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Dr. Rani Varghese who is also
the Co-Bertha Reynolds Fellow,

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and Josh Miller facilitate

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or the Unlearning Racism Team,

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or the Undoing or also
the Anti-Racism Taskforce

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or the Interracial Dialogues
or the Council of Color or SWA.

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There's many, many venues that you're all

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really just taking this
on and participating.

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So, just actually give
yourselves a round of applause

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for taking it on, diving deep,
and being in conversation.

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(panelists and audience applaud)

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I believe it's really in no small related

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to the vision and commitment
of actually Dean Jacobs

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so why don't we give Dean
Jacobs a round of applause.

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(panelists and audience applaud)

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And this is not an opportunity
for me to ingratiate,

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but actually appreciate.

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I often think of our students of color

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who have to go out into
the fields and practice

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an anti-racism project, often in agenecies

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where they're the only ones
and how hard that must be.

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It really evokes a great deal of empathy

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for kind of what it would
be like for our own dean,

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a woman of color in an institution

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that is carrying on a
legacy of anti-racism,

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what that would look like.

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So I just want to thank
you for being who you are.

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We will soon miss you
but we will not forget

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the legacy that you left here,

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so thank you again Dean Jacobs.

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(audience and panelists applaud)

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So for tonight's panel, we are taking

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a pluralistic approach
to examining how issues

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of race and racism affects your roles

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as clinical practitioners with
a hope of identifying ways

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that you can be allies,
advocates or change-agents

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for the clients that
you work for and with.

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We have three panelists that represent

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various social locations,

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work in a myriad of clinical settings,

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and have raised multiple
theoretical backgrounds.

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Of course since these
frameworks are couched

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within the core paradigm
of clinical social work,

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stressing of the
Person-Environment Perspective

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and stressing the Points of
Therapeutic Relationship,

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I take the position that difference

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should not be viewed
negatively or aimed to divide,

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however difference serves as
a catalyst for possibility,

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it gives opportunities to
enhance and enrich our personal

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and professional endeavors.

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In other words, difference is good

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and difference does not necessarily

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denote a lack of common ground.

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With that said, just as Chimamonda Adichie

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warns of the danger of a single story,

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it is important to hold that these stories

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that our panelists are sharing,

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are not necessarily universal truths,

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but they are in fact their stories

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and though they are being
told on a micro-level,

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there's a macro-backdrop that
is happening as we speak.

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Just as I was saying, Miller and Garron

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talk about the "adorable
web of inequalities,"

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there are several inequalities

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that we are working to
transform as we speak.

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They're the cries of "Do
not leave any child behind,"

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but in fact what is happening,

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many children are being pushed aside

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and thousands are being
forgot all together.

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We don't have to go any further
than 10 miles to Holyoke

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or 15 miles further to Springfield,

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where are deemed "drop-out factories"

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where you have about a 50% drop out rate

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for young people in public schools

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and these children are overwhelmingly

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black and Latino students.

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And then you have programs

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where you see that students do succeed

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so I am thinking of Arizona
and the House Bill 2281

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that has banned Ethnic Studies programs

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even though that we have an understanding

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that these programs foster and cultivate

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a pipeline to college for students

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yet they're deemed to be
detrimental to one's learning.

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So it's clear that cultural
imperialism still is prevailing,

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while there are some children

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that are trying to find
a pipeline to college,

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there's other black and
Latino youth that are

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really trying to avoid the
schools-to-prison pipleline.

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And places like New York
City are setting policies,

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like stop-and-frisk, that
promote racial profiling

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where a population of young people

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that represents about
1/3 of the population

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are taking about 50% of the cell blocks.

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So yesterday's urban renewal

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has turned into today's gentrification.

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And what seems to be
privileged persons' diversity,

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becomes another's dead end.

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Enviromental racism persists

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and statistics highlighting
health disparities

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based on race are widening

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even in cases where variables
of class are controlled.

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Racial inequality still exists.

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So I percieve tonight as really looking at

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us examining the "what"'s in
hope of identifying the "why"'s

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so that we can figure out
how we want to approach

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issues of race and racism.

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Last year I introduced
my panel as a group,

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I called the group Dr. Funk
and the Psychodynamic Three,

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and they start, and this
happens with groups,

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we had vast success very quickly

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and as a result we ended up disbanding.

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(panelists and audience laugh)

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Now many people probably
blamed it on our egos,

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but here at Smith I think
it's really our ids.

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(panelists and audience laugh)

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So this year though, this year I think

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you're gonna be really in good hands.

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So before I do introduce our panelists,

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I do want to say that there
are some ground rules,

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so again, I'm anxious and I
have the easy job for tonight,

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so the panelists are really pouring out

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their whole hearts and their
souls to share with you

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to offer perspective that may aid you

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as you move forward with
your clinical practice.

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So we do want you to
practice active listening,

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phenomenological
listening, which would mean

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you're listening to understand,

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not react or respond, per se.

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Each panelist will have
about 15 minutes to talk

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and at that time we'll open
it up for question and answer.

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So we do want to focus on students

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because this is geared towards students

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as for asking the questions.

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Then we want, before you ask a question,

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if you could please just
say something that you heard

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from one of the panelists.

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You may be addressing a question
to a different panelist,

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but please say something that you heard

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before you ask your question.

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So allow me to introduce the panel.

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To my left is Doctor
Elizabeth Rodriguez-Keyes,

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PhD, Licensed Social Worker.

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She is an Assistant
Professor of Social Work

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at Southern Connecticut State University

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who is recently tenured.

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(audience applauds)

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There, Doctor Rodrigues-Keyes teaches

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Practice in Human Behavior
in Environment courses.

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She maintains a Clinical Appointment

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at Yale Child Studies Center

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where she conducts clinical supervision

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and leads two supervision seminars.

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We have Enroue Halfkenny
all the way to my left.

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He is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker,

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a graduate of Smith College
School for Social Work

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in the house, an artist,
a social justice activist,

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and a priest within the
traditional Yoruba culture

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and religion.

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He works part-time at a
child-and-family community

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00:11:14.726 --> 00:11:17.164
mental health clinic, addressing issues

258
00:11:17.164 --> 00:11:20.171
of complex trauma and
problematic sexual behaviors

259
00:11:20.171 --> 00:11:22.470
and has recently started
a private practice,

260
00:11:22.470 --> 00:11:25.442
Healing and Liberation Counseling.

261
00:11:25.442 --> 00:11:28.432
(audience applauds)

262
00:11:32.478 --> 00:11:34.811
Lastly, we have Arden O'Donnell,

263
00:11:34.811 --> 00:11:37.656
MPH, MSW, and Licensed Social Worker,

264
00:11:37.656 --> 00:11:39.885
currently working as a
Palliative Care Social Worker

265
00:11:39.885 --> 00:11:42.694
at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston.

266
00:11:42.694 --> 00:11:44.459
Arden plays an active
role in the supervision

267
00:11:44.459 --> 00:11:47.698
and education of students
and interns at BWH,

268
00:11:47.698 --> 00:11:49.301
sits on the Ethics Committee

269
00:11:49.301 --> 00:11:51.495
and the Social Work Advisory Board.

270
00:11:51.495 --> 00:11:53.573
She has her Masters in
International Public Health

271
00:11:53.573 --> 00:11:55.338
and spent years in Southern Africa

272
00:11:55.338 --> 00:11:58.136
running programs and
providing psychosocial support

273
00:11:58.136 --> 00:12:00.504
for orphans and vulnerable children.

274
00:12:00.504 --> 00:12:02.443
Arden founded and still runs

275
00:12:02.443 --> 00:12:04.881
a small non-profit based in Zimbabwe

276
00:12:04.881 --> 00:12:08.782
that provides educational
psychosocial support to oprhans.

277
00:12:08.782 --> 00:12:10.686
Arden was a foster parent for three years

278
00:12:10.686 --> 00:12:13.039
and adopted a sibling
group while attempting

279
00:12:13.039 --> 00:12:14.425
to get her blue slip.

280
00:12:14.425 --> 00:12:16.723
Arden graduated from Smith in 2008.

281
00:12:16.723 --> 00:12:18.233
She doesn't realize
that I was adopted too,

282
00:12:18.233 --> 00:12:19.893
so yay for adoption,

283
00:12:19.893 --> 00:12:22.099
and let's give a round
of applause for Arden.

284
00:12:22.099 --> 00:12:25.286
(panelists and audience applaud)

285
00:12:31.642 --> 00:12:33.175
- Okay!

286
00:12:33.175 --> 00:12:36.367
I'm excited to be here at Smith.

287
00:12:36.367 --> 00:12:38.341
This is a really surreal experience for me

288
00:12:38.341 --> 00:12:42.556
because in 1997 I began
my doctoral studies here

289
00:12:42.556 --> 00:12:44.483
and I never would have imagined

290
00:12:44.483 --> 00:12:48.128
that I would be up here speaking to you.

291
00:12:48.128 --> 00:12:51.105
- [Annemarie] It doesn't move anywhere.

292
00:12:51.227 --> 00:12:54.826
- Okay, I'll try to move forward.

293
00:12:54.826 --> 00:12:56.660
This one works better.

294
00:12:56.660 --> 00:13:00.381
Two of them, imagine that.

295
00:13:00.433 --> 00:13:02.976
Let's move you back.

296
00:13:02.976 --> 00:13:06.488
So here I am today,

297
00:13:07.910 --> 00:13:09.617
sharing with you my experience of being

298
00:13:09.617 --> 00:13:13.947
a clinician of color and my
commitment to anti-racism work.

299
00:13:13.947 --> 00:13:17.152
For me, developing an
anti-racism framework

300
00:13:17.152 --> 00:13:19.091
has been an ongoing process

301
00:13:19.091 --> 00:13:21.122
that I have consistently explored

302
00:13:21.122 --> 00:13:23.688
at various developmental
stages of my life,

303
00:13:23.688 --> 00:13:26.428
both personally and professionally.

304
00:13:26.428 --> 00:13:28.402
I have been challenged continuously

305
00:13:28.402 --> 00:13:31.095
to look deeper at both my definition

306
00:13:31.095 --> 00:13:33.533
of understanding of differences

307
00:13:33.533 --> 00:13:37.411
by my clients, my supervisors
and my instructors.

308
00:13:37.411 --> 00:13:39.478
I have examined and become more aware

309
00:13:39.478 --> 00:13:42.682
of my own values, biases, and assumptions

310
00:13:42.682 --> 00:13:44.110
about human behavior

311
00:13:44.110 --> 00:13:46.037
and the potential impact it can have

312
00:13:46.037 --> 00:13:48.882
on the treatment process of clients.

313
00:13:48.882 --> 00:13:50.751
Today I will share with you how I approach

314
00:13:50.751 --> 00:13:52.992
clinical work with diverse populations.

315
00:13:52.992 --> 00:13:57.270
This will be illustrated by
discussing the case of Carmen.

316
00:13:57.357 --> 00:13:59.778
Really? Oh my God.

317
00:14:02.930 --> 00:14:04.160
Can you hear me now?

318
00:14:04.160 --> 00:14:06.047
(audience laughs)

319
00:14:06.401 --> 00:14:11.401
This will be illustrated by
discussing the case of Carmen.

320
00:14:12.740 --> 00:14:13.611
(audience shouts support)

321
00:14:13.611 --> 00:14:15.213
I decided to use this case

322
00:14:15.213 --> 00:14:17.651
because it was a home-based intervention.

323
00:14:17.651 --> 00:14:21.215
This type of service can
be viewed as more intimate

324
00:14:21.215 --> 00:14:24.083
or even intrusive, particularly because

325
00:14:24.083 --> 00:14:26.846
the intervention is in the client's home.

326
00:14:26.846 --> 00:14:29.493
But a clear benefit of
the home-based service

327
00:14:29.493 --> 00:14:32.419
is that is presents the opportunity

328
00:14:32.419 --> 00:14:35.159
to observe interactions
and the potential issues

329
00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.295
happening on real time.

330
00:14:37.295 --> 00:14:40.000
As a result, when
considering in-home services

331
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:42.764
as a treatment option,
there is greater need

332
00:14:42.764 --> 00:14:44.238
for awareness and understanding

333
00:14:44.238 --> 00:14:46.444
of one's values and biases

334
00:14:46.444 --> 00:14:50.008
in order to effectively
provide clinical services.

335
00:14:50.008 --> 00:14:51.715
My own practice framework.

336
00:14:51.715 --> 00:14:53.712
My training has been predominantly

337
00:14:53.712 --> 00:14:55.914
in traditional psychodynamic theory.

338
00:14:55.914 --> 00:14:58.550
My experience of being
a Latina has exposed me

339
00:14:58.550 --> 00:15:01.951
to certain cultural and racial beliefs.

340
00:15:01.951 --> 00:15:05.016
This has required for me to
be attentive to the biases

341
00:15:05.016 --> 00:15:08.894
inherent in traditional use
of psychodynamic theory,

342
00:15:08.894 --> 00:15:11.530
as these theories can overlook the context

343
00:15:11.530 --> 00:15:14.374
of cultural socialization, ethnicity,

344
00:15:14.374 --> 00:15:17.265
racial identity, and ethnic identity.

345
00:15:17.265 --> 00:15:18.937
Within the context of Carmen's case,

346
00:15:18.937 --> 00:15:21.479
I will discuss three key elements

347
00:15:21.479 --> 00:15:24.243
that I believe are
important for clinicians

348
00:15:24.243 --> 00:15:26.646
to consider when working with racially

349
00:15:26.646 --> 00:15:30.744
and culturally diverse populations.

350
00:15:30.744 --> 00:15:35.017
One is self-reflection, exploring culture,

351
00:15:35.017 --> 00:15:37.587
assimilation and acculturation,

352
00:15:37.587 --> 00:15:40.791
and the treatment impact on Latinos.

353
00:15:40.791 --> 00:15:42.393
The Case.

354
00:15:42.393 --> 00:15:46.573
I began with Carmen during
my PhD coursework at Smith.

355
00:15:46.573 --> 00:15:49.139
At the time I had been a
clinician for seven years

356
00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:51.902
and had been doing home-based
work for three years.

357
00:15:51.902 --> 00:15:53.446
Who am I?

358
00:15:53.446 --> 00:15:54.642
Who will I become?,

359
00:15:54.642 --> 00:15:57.742
were questions I was
beginning to explore again.

360
00:15:57.742 --> 00:16:00.575
It's like a never-ending process.

361
00:16:00.575 --> 00:16:02.850
I had just begun my doctoral degree

362
00:16:02.850 --> 00:16:06.484
and had many conflicting
emotions about the degree.

363
00:16:06.484 --> 00:16:08.690
I would be the first one in my family

364
00:16:08.690 --> 00:16:10.594
to obtain a PhD.

365
00:16:10.594 --> 00:16:14.333
I wondered, would the degree
separate me and my family?

366
00:16:14.333 --> 00:16:17.038
Would this degree change who I am?

367
00:16:17.038 --> 00:16:18.860
Did I belong here?

368
00:16:18.860 --> 00:16:20.370
All these questions were questions

369
00:16:20.370 --> 00:16:22.401
that I was struggling with.

370
00:16:22.401 --> 00:16:25.606
Ironically, "Who I am, Who will I become?"

371
00:16:25.606 --> 00:16:28.578
were also major themes that
emerged in Carmen's case.

372
00:16:28.578 --> 00:16:30.737
Although exploring one's identity

373
00:16:30.737 --> 00:16:33.176
is a common experience for adolescents,

374
00:16:33.176 --> 00:16:35.648
for Carmen it was further exacerbated

375
00:16:35.648 --> 00:16:37.518
by her mother's expectations around

376
00:16:37.518 --> 00:16:41.895
adherence to traditional cultural
values and family values.

377
00:16:41.895 --> 00:16:44.762
In session, Carmen often discussed

378
00:16:44.762 --> 00:16:47.363
that she did not want to
be seen as a minority.

379
00:16:47.363 --> 00:16:49.731
She wanted to be like everyone else.

380
00:16:49.731 --> 00:16:51.798
Her solution for this was

381
00:16:51.798 --> 00:16:54.468
she started hanging out with a goth group

382
00:16:54.468 --> 00:16:57.568
consisting largely of white adolescents.

383
00:16:57.568 --> 00:17:00.877
They were different, but to Carmen,

384
00:17:00.877 --> 00:17:03.779
hanging out with this group meant

385
00:17:03.779 --> 00:17:06.450
that no one could tell
that she was a minority.

386
00:17:06.450 --> 00:17:07.715
She was Mexican.

387
00:17:07.715 --> 00:17:11.012
Carmen often wore a
lot of black eye liner,

388
00:17:11.012 --> 00:17:12.824
had jet black, spiky hair,

389
00:17:12.824 --> 00:17:15.691
and she was pale, so she really stood out.

390
00:17:15.691 --> 00:17:19.859
The individuals in her group
all seemed to look alike.

391
00:17:19.859 --> 00:17:23.400
At the time I began working with Carmen,

392
00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:25.362
three months after her suicide attempt,

393
00:17:25.362 --> 00:17:28.265
suicide was no longer
a presenting problem.

394
00:17:28.265 --> 00:17:31.202
Carmen denied any suicide
thoughts or attempts

395
00:17:31.202 --> 00:17:33.745
and had not required further
psychiatric evaluation

396
00:17:33.745 --> 00:17:36.450
for suicide attempts or gestures.

397
00:17:36.450 --> 00:17:39.910
Upon further explanation, Carmen disclosed

398
00:17:39.910 --> 00:17:41.616
that the pressures from her mother

399
00:17:41.616 --> 00:17:44.391
to adhere to traditional family values

400
00:17:44.391 --> 00:17:46.992
and not reject her
culture had precipitated

401
00:17:46.992 --> 00:17:51.462
a fight with her mother that
led her to attempt suicide.

402
00:17:51.462 --> 00:17:54.399
Carmen also described feeling stuck,

403
00:17:54.399 --> 00:17:58.404
wanting to respect her mother

404
00:17:58.404 --> 00:18:02.201
yet wanting to be like her peers.

405
00:18:02.201 --> 00:18:06.160
The current presenting problem
at the time appeared to be

406
00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:08.969
severe conflict between
mother and daughter,

407
00:18:08.969 --> 00:18:12.511
centered on issues of
acculturation and assimilation.

408
00:18:12.511 --> 00:18:14.682
As I got to know Carmen
and her mother better

409
00:18:14.682 --> 00:18:17.085
it became clear that in my work with them,

410
00:18:17.085 --> 00:18:19.326
identity and negotiating culture issues

411
00:18:19.326 --> 00:18:21.288
needed to be addressed.

412
00:18:21.288 --> 00:18:23.761
During sessions, Carmen
would ask me questions

413
00:18:23.761 --> 00:18:26.152
about my own family of origin

414
00:18:26.152 --> 00:18:29.902
and my own personal individuation process.

415
00:18:29.902 --> 00:18:34.902
These two areas became the
focus of our work together.

416
00:18:34.999 --> 00:18:37.077
Carmen would ask me,

417
00:18:37.077 --> 00:18:41.408
"How do you manage to be
both American and Latina?"

418
00:18:41.408 --> 00:18:45.413
"Did you want to be
one and not the other?"

419
00:18:45.413 --> 00:18:47.515
These comments represented both the stress

420
00:18:47.515 --> 00:18:50.614
and ambivalence she felt
around her own identity.

421
00:18:50.614 --> 00:18:52.391
I believe Carmen wanted to identify

422
00:18:52.391 --> 00:18:56.419
with her Mexican culture
and be close to her mother

423
00:18:56.419 --> 00:18:58.358
but she also yearned to fit in

424
00:18:58.358 --> 00:19:00.390
and be like her American friends.

425
00:19:00.390 --> 00:19:02.468
Carmen had limited exposure to anyone

426
00:19:02.468 --> 00:19:05.069
who intergrated both
cultures successfully.

427
00:19:05.069 --> 00:19:07.704
She thought that her
struggles with identity

428
00:19:07.704 --> 00:19:10.131
meant the rejection of her Mexican roots

429
00:19:10.131 --> 00:19:13.614
in order to gain acceptance
in the American world.

430
00:19:13.614 --> 00:19:15.715
In sessions, Carmen also discussed

431
00:19:15.715 --> 00:19:18.444
feeling disloyal to her
mother, her culture,

432
00:19:18.444 --> 00:19:22.983
and felt responsible for
causing her mother unhappiness.

433
00:19:22.983 --> 00:19:26.083
As much as Carmen was
struggling with her identity,

434
00:19:26.083 --> 00:19:27.592
her mother was also challenged,

435
00:19:27.592 --> 00:19:29.787
not only by her daughter's changes

436
00:19:29.787 --> 00:19:31.458
but also by her own.

437
00:19:31.458 --> 00:19:34.523
Carmen's mother was a quiet woman

438
00:19:34.523 --> 00:19:36.694
who had a difficult time understanding

439
00:19:36.694 --> 00:19:39.028
how to effectively use therapy.

440
00:19:39.028 --> 00:19:41.605
She had not requested therapy,

441
00:19:41.605 --> 00:19:43.208
had never been in therapy,

442
00:19:43.208 --> 00:19:45.541
nor was it a typical cultural practice

443
00:19:45.541 --> 00:19:49.338
to talk to people outside of
her family about her problems.

444
00:19:49.338 --> 00:19:52.983
Initially, engaging with
Carmen's mother was difficult.

445
00:19:52.983 --> 00:19:54.980
I was a bilingual clinician,

446
00:19:54.980 --> 00:19:58.486
that made the process of
communicating possible,

447
00:19:58.486 --> 00:20:01.017
however she was apprehensive
about discussing

448
00:20:01.017 --> 00:20:02.492
anything with me.

449
00:20:02.492 --> 00:20:05.557
This may have been because Carmen's mother

450
00:20:05.557 --> 00:20:09.690
was undocumented and quite
possibly did not trust me.

451
00:20:09.690 --> 00:20:11.791
Since the intervention was home based,

452
00:20:11.791 --> 00:20:15.065
I went to their home two
or three times a week.

453
00:20:15.065 --> 00:20:19.976
That's a lot, sometimes
to meet with Carmen,

454
00:20:19.976 --> 00:20:22.914
sometimes to meet with Carmen's mother,

455
00:20:22.914 --> 00:20:25.944
and other times to do family sessions.

456
00:20:25.944 --> 00:20:28.115
This type of intervention facilitated

457
00:20:28.115 --> 00:20:30.646
an alliance with Carmen's mother.

458
00:20:30.646 --> 00:20:32.155
My work with Carmen's mother initially

459
00:20:32.155 --> 00:20:35.325
focused on understanding
who she was as an individual

460
00:20:35.325 --> 00:20:38.065
and what it was like for
her to be an immigrant woman

461
00:20:38.065 --> 00:20:40.723
who was undocumented in the United States.

462
00:20:40.723 --> 00:20:43.533
The connection between
immigration, acculturation,

463
00:20:43.533 --> 00:20:45.600
and family values were explored

464
00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:47.272
in order to understand and support

465
00:20:47.272 --> 00:20:50.708
the mother-daughter relationship.

466
00:20:50.708 --> 00:20:55.015
During our parent and family sessions,

467
00:20:55.015 --> 00:20:57.616
Carmen's mother typically cried.

468
00:20:57.616 --> 00:20:59.683
She feared the changes
her daughter was making

469
00:20:59.683 --> 00:21:01.679
meant she would lose her daughter

470
00:21:01.679 --> 00:21:04.315
and that she would become
like other American kids,

471
00:21:04.315 --> 00:21:07.125
forgetting culture and forgetting her.

472
00:21:07.125 --> 00:21:08.425
In my work with this family,

473
00:21:08.425 --> 00:21:10.689
it also became clear that
Carmen and her mother

474
00:21:10.689 --> 00:21:12.256
both shared the same fear,

475
00:21:12.256 --> 00:21:14.183
if Carmen became too Americanized,

476
00:21:14.183 --> 00:21:15.751
she would become someone else,

477
00:21:15.751 --> 00:21:18.502
leaving her culture and values behind,

478
00:21:18.502 --> 00:21:20.430
and more importantly for her mother,

479
00:21:20.430 --> 00:21:22.368
leaving her family ties.

480
00:21:22.368 --> 00:21:23.843
The focus of the work aimed to assist

481
00:21:23.843 --> 00:21:26.931
Carmen not to reject any part of herself.

482
00:21:26.931 --> 00:21:29.079
It was possible that Carmen could embrace

483
00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.146
living between two languages,

484
00:21:31.146 --> 00:21:33.851
two or more identities, and two cultures.

485
00:21:33.851 --> 00:21:38.181
These concepts are typically
associated with biculturalism.

486
00:21:38.181 --> 00:21:40.619
One important aspect
of my work with Carmen

487
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:43.057
was to help her negotiate her two worlds

488
00:21:43.057 --> 00:21:47.098
in a way that did not leave her feeling

489
00:21:47.098 --> 00:21:49.164
like she was abandoning herself,

490
00:21:49.164 --> 00:21:51.904
her family, or her culture,

491
00:21:51.904 --> 00:21:54.540
as she learned to fully
embrace what it means

492
00:21:54.540 --> 00:21:58.336
for a Latina to also be an American.

493
00:21:58.336 --> 00:22:00.403
Self-reflection.

494
00:22:00.403 --> 00:22:03.270
My interest in studying the experience

495
00:22:03.270 --> 00:22:07.276
of immigration and assimilation

496
00:22:07.276 --> 00:22:09.784
and ethnic identity began
when I entered Smith.

497
00:22:09.784 --> 00:22:12.257
I was interested in understanding
the unique histories

498
00:22:12.257 --> 00:22:13.917
of oppression, adapation,

499
00:22:13.917 --> 00:22:17.063
and success of ethnic groups.

500
00:22:17.063 --> 00:22:19.060
This area of study was propelled by my own

501
00:22:19.060 --> 00:22:21.928
personal experience of
being a second generation

502
00:22:21.928 --> 00:22:23.518
Puerto Rican woman.

503
00:22:23.518 --> 00:22:25.399
Living between two distinct cultures

504
00:22:25.399 --> 00:22:28.406
had been an unpaved road early in my life.

505
00:22:28.406 --> 00:22:30.577
My mother migrated to the United States

506
00:22:30.577 --> 00:22:31.912
from Puerto Rico.

507
00:22:31.912 --> 00:22:34.942
She maintained a very
traditional Latino household.

508
00:22:34.942 --> 00:22:37.009
I could only speak Spanish at home.

509
00:22:37.009 --> 00:22:39.644
My interactions with the dominant culture

510
00:22:39.644 --> 00:22:42.048
were in school and community.

511
00:22:42.048 --> 00:22:45.217
The case of Carmen
challenged me to reflect

512
00:22:45.217 --> 00:22:47.446
on my own familiar
experience of living between

513
00:22:47.446 --> 00:22:48.886
two cultures.

514
00:22:48.886 --> 00:22:51.324
I remember being Carmen's
age and not quite knowing

515
00:22:51.324 --> 00:22:54.424
my place in this world
or even if I fit in.

516
00:22:54.424 --> 00:22:56.096
When I went to school,
there were no teachers

517
00:22:56.096 --> 00:22:57.234
who were like me.

518
00:22:57.234 --> 00:22:58.696
I did not have role models

519
00:22:58.696 --> 00:23:01.634
that could assist me with this process.

520
00:23:01.634 --> 00:23:05.105
And for the interest of time,
I'll move a little faster.

521
00:23:05.105 --> 00:23:06.812
(laughs)

522
00:23:06.812 --> 00:23:09.645
What I'd like to say is
that during my PhD training,

523
00:23:09.645 --> 00:23:11.978
I was fortunate enough to find someone

524
00:23:11.978 --> 00:23:14.649
who was bilingual and bicultural.

525
00:23:14.649 --> 00:23:17.354
She was an amazing Latina professor

526
00:23:17.354 --> 00:23:18.619
and supervisor,

527
00:23:18.619 --> 00:23:20.558
and this was the first
time in my experience

528
00:23:20.558 --> 00:23:24.389
where I could imagine
what all the possibilities

529
00:23:24.389 --> 00:23:27.129
that could exist for me.

530
00:23:27.129 --> 00:23:31.437
She challenged me in ways
to expand my thinking.

531
00:23:31.437 --> 00:23:34.664
Trying to see what we need to do.

532
00:23:34.664 --> 00:23:36.940
She (inaudible) meant
to challenge me in ways

533
00:23:36.940 --> 00:23:37.903
to expand my thinking.

534
00:23:37.903 --> 00:23:39.540
Our supervision sessions
were multilingual,

535
00:23:39.540 --> 00:23:41.897
consisting of English,
Spanish, and Spanglish,

536
00:23:41.897 --> 00:23:46.413
which was very similar
to my work with Carmen.

537
00:23:50.163 --> 00:23:52.522
She modeled for me how
to connect with Carmen

538
00:23:52.522 --> 00:23:54.854
without disclosing my
own personal experiences.

539
00:23:54.854 --> 00:23:57.385
On a personal level, I
struggled with wanting to share

540
00:23:57.385 --> 00:23:58.929
my own story with Carmen.

541
00:23:58.929 --> 00:24:00.380
We were so similar.

542
00:24:00.380 --> 00:24:03.991
I wanted to reassure her that
I understood her struggles,

543
00:24:03.991 --> 00:24:06.336
and that I also struggled with my identity

544
00:24:06.336 --> 00:24:08.461
and my position in this world.

545
00:24:08.461 --> 00:24:11.468
However, I recognized
that Carmen must also

546
00:24:11.468 --> 00:24:14.742
pave her own pathway to
understand her identity.

547
00:24:14.742 --> 00:24:17.482
This path would represent
a very different one

548
00:24:17.482 --> 00:24:18.898
from my experience,

549
00:24:18.898 --> 00:24:21.151
as is often the case with self-disclosure,

550
00:24:21.151 --> 00:24:23.681
I felt it was very important
that I measured my words

551
00:24:23.681 --> 00:24:26.387
carefully, so that I would not enter

552
00:24:26.387 --> 00:24:30.805
into her experience in any
ways that would not be helpful.

553
00:24:31.658 --> 00:24:33.666
In conclusion (chuckles).

554
00:24:33.666 --> 00:24:36.145
(audience laughs)

555
00:24:39.401 --> 00:24:40.632
In conclusion,

556
00:24:40.632 --> 00:24:44.138
okay, you heard that case.

557
00:24:44.138 --> 00:24:45.508
Finally,

558
00:24:45.508 --> 00:24:48.713
what I find really most
interesting about this case

559
00:24:48.713 --> 00:24:52.544
is that three years
ago, Carmen emailed me.

560
00:24:52.544 --> 00:24:55.969
She wanted to just let me
know that she was doing well.

561
00:24:55.969 --> 00:24:58.314
She wanted to thank me for helping her

562
00:24:58.314 --> 00:25:00.752
during a very difficult time in her life.

563
00:25:00.752 --> 00:25:04.189
She also told me that she had
become a biochemical engineer.

564
00:25:04.189 --> 00:25:05.721
(audience gasps)

565
00:25:05.721 --> 00:25:08.902
And that she was going
to be getting married

566
00:25:08.902 --> 00:25:11.201
and would be hyphenating her last name.

567
00:25:11.201 --> 00:25:13.604
(audience laughs)

568
00:25:13.604 --> 00:25:16.919
(audience and panelists applaud)

569
00:25:30.509 --> 00:25:31.588
- My name is Arden,

570
00:25:31.588 --> 00:25:36.058
and I am a white-identified clinician,

571
00:25:36.058 --> 00:25:37.660
and I work on a palliative care team,

572
00:25:37.660 --> 00:25:39.332
and for those of you guys who don't know

573
00:25:39.332 --> 00:25:40.400
what palliative care is,

574
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:41.526
it means that I work with people

575
00:25:41.526 --> 00:25:42.931
that are at the end of their life.

576
00:25:42.931 --> 00:25:46.298
In a hospital setting,

577
00:25:46.298 --> 00:25:48.736
my team ususally gets
consulted when people

578
00:25:48.736 --> 00:25:49.967
are getting bad news,

579
00:25:49.967 --> 00:25:51.743
that their disease has progressed,

580
00:25:51.743 --> 00:25:55.145
and that there are no more therapies,

581
00:25:55.145 --> 00:25:58.140
or they are in a place
where they're having to make

582
00:25:58.140 --> 00:25:59.975
complex medical decisions

583
00:25:59.975 --> 00:26:01.948
about the kinds of
interventions that they want.

584
00:26:01.948 --> 00:26:03.957
This could be their code status,

585
00:26:03.957 --> 00:26:06.674
or this could be, do they want
to do another chemotherapy,

586
00:26:06.674 --> 00:26:09.123
do they want to join a clinical trial?

587
00:26:09.123 --> 00:26:11.921
My team is also consulted when there is

588
00:26:11.921 --> 00:26:15.160
a lot of pain and
uncontrolled symptoms, so,

589
00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:18.051
I work with a lot of patients who are,

590
00:26:18.051 --> 00:26:20.164
I meet a lot of people on
the worst day of their life,

591
00:26:20.164 --> 00:26:20.965
quite honestly,

592
00:26:20.965 --> 00:26:24.437
and so, that,

593
00:26:24.437 --> 00:26:26.236
and so some of my work is crisis work,

594
00:26:26.236 --> 00:26:29.847
and there are some cases that
I'm able to follow over time.

595
00:26:29.847 --> 00:26:32.076
The other thing that's important is that

596
00:26:32.076 --> 00:26:33.516
the context to where I work,

597
00:26:33.516 --> 00:26:37.115
which is a tertiary facility
that's in the middle of Boston,

598
00:26:37.115 --> 00:26:39.925
and what I think is important
for you to know about this

599
00:26:39.925 --> 00:26:43.953
is that a tertiary facility is,

600
00:26:43.953 --> 00:26:46.693
means that people have to
have a referral to get there.

601
00:26:46.693 --> 00:26:51.604
And this particular facility
is the best of the best.

602
00:26:51.604 --> 00:26:53.230
And I'm not,

603
00:26:53.230 --> 00:26:54.797
I really appreciate the
work that I do there

604
00:26:54.797 --> 00:26:57.444
and the clinical practice
that they allow me to do,

605
00:26:57.444 --> 00:26:59.278
but,

606
00:26:59.278 --> 00:27:01.148
as you walk in the doors,

607
00:27:01.148 --> 00:27:03.539
it looks like a hotel.

608
00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:05.002
It's like a little concierge desk,

609
00:27:05.002 --> 00:27:07.881
and there's people in
these cute, little blue,

610
00:27:07.881 --> 00:27:09.855
these volunteers that are
in these blue jackets,

611
00:27:09.855 --> 00:27:13.141
and there's a big sign of
the ranking of excellence,

612
00:27:13.141 --> 00:27:15.277
and it's fed into by a lot of,

613
00:27:15.277 --> 00:27:16.728
by it's a Harvard teaching hospital,

614
00:27:16.728 --> 00:27:18.156
and so,

615
00:27:18.156 --> 00:27:20.966
to tell you that people
aren't engaged in anti-racism

616
00:27:20.966 --> 00:27:23.694
work there,

617
00:27:23.694 --> 00:27:24.704
most of them are not.

618
00:27:24.704 --> 00:27:28.837
Let's just say that there's
a lot of unexamined privilege

619
00:27:28.837 --> 00:27:30.707
that goes on there.

620
00:27:30.707 --> 00:27:32.669
It sort of, as you walk through the halls,

621
00:27:32.669 --> 00:27:34.410
I feel like it seeps through them

622
00:27:34.410 --> 00:27:36.303
for someone who has been a Smith graduate

623
00:27:36.303 --> 00:27:38.543
and has a commitment to anti-racism work,

624
00:27:38.543 --> 00:27:40.215
it sort of seeps through the walls

625
00:27:40.215 --> 00:27:42.200
of the white doctors' pictures

626
00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:44.639
as you run through the halls
and through the administration,

627
00:27:44.639 --> 00:27:48.156
and to, quite honestly straight
into the patient population,

628
00:27:48.156 --> 00:27:51.454
because it's fed into by

629
00:27:51.454 --> 00:27:52.766
a lot of other hospitals,

630
00:27:52.766 --> 00:27:54.519
and it is not,

631
00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:56.028
it's not based in a neighborhood.

632
00:27:56.028 --> 00:27:58.095
It's based in the Longwood Medical Area,

633
00:27:58.095 --> 00:28:01.589
so there's very few patients,

634
00:28:01.589 --> 00:28:02.971
and there's a lot of insurance issues,

635
00:28:02.971 --> 00:28:04.677
so you need to know it's very,

636
00:28:04.677 --> 00:28:09.275
there's a lot of white privilege

637
00:28:09.275 --> 00:28:10.947
that runs sort of through every aspect,

638
00:28:10.947 --> 00:28:15.254
including the patient population.

639
00:28:15.254 --> 00:28:18.145
And, when I chose this case

640
00:28:18.145 --> 00:28:19.654
a couple months ago,
and I thought about it,

641
00:28:19.654 --> 00:28:20.757
I really wanted to present a case

642
00:28:20.757 --> 00:28:24.054
where I took a really bold stand against

643
00:28:24.054 --> 00:28:25.726
what I really saw as racism

644
00:28:25.726 --> 00:28:28.199
and discrimination within this facility,

645
00:28:28.199 --> 00:28:32.170
and more recently, as I have

646
00:28:32.170 --> 00:28:35.374
been being a professor here,

647
00:28:35.374 --> 00:28:38.277
and, you know, looking
again at all of my own work,

648
00:28:38.277 --> 00:28:40.645
what I realized is it isn't
just these bold statements

649
00:28:40.645 --> 00:28:43.281
that make you do the anti-racism work,

650
00:28:43.281 --> 00:28:46.334
and you'll have fun
hearing about how I dealt

651
00:28:46.334 --> 00:28:48.017
with this particular one,

652
00:28:48.017 --> 00:28:50.839
but what I realized is
it's in the every day work,

653
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:53.753
and it's in what you say
and it's what you don't say,

654
00:28:53.753 --> 00:28:55.250
and it's when you remain silent

655
00:28:55.250 --> 00:28:56.261
and you should have spoken,

656
00:28:56.261 --> 00:28:58.327
and I think that does,

657
00:28:58.327 --> 00:28:59.999
it's like that in clinical practice too.

658
00:28:59.999 --> 00:29:01.021
It's like it in your classes,

659
00:29:01.021 --> 00:29:02.669
and it's like it in clinical practice,

660
00:29:02.669 --> 00:29:04.794
and in this case, I did speak out,

661
00:29:04.794 --> 00:29:06.895
but it also changed my clinical practice

662
00:29:06.895 --> 00:29:09.101
to make sure that I incorporated this

663
00:29:09.101 --> 00:29:11.133
into every single
patient that I work with,

664
00:29:11.133 --> 00:29:14.407
and I'll tell you a little bit about that.

665
00:29:14.407 --> 00:29:17.182
So, if you look at the case

666
00:29:17.182 --> 00:29:18.610
that I sent out,

667
00:29:18.610 --> 00:29:19.713
this is a,

668
00:29:19.713 --> 00:29:22.255
I'm just gonna run
through, sort of my process

669
00:29:22.255 --> 00:29:23.312
through this,

670
00:29:23.312 --> 00:29:24.554
'cause I think it'll take you there

671
00:29:24.554 --> 00:29:28.757
and you'll understand
why I got to where I did.

672
00:29:28.757 --> 00:29:30.858
Which was wanting to kill someone.

673
00:29:30.858 --> 00:29:31.857
(audience laughs)

674
00:29:31.857 --> 00:29:33.389
(clears throat)

675
00:29:33.389 --> 00:29:37.697
I got this page that,

676
00:29:37.697 --> 00:29:40.297
to the floor,

677
00:29:40.297 --> 00:29:42.468
to meet this patient
who had been disruptive

678
00:29:42.468 --> 00:29:44.303
in the emergency department,

679
00:29:44.303 --> 00:29:47.135
and I didn't really even
believe that to begin with,

680
00:29:47.135 --> 00:29:49.039
as soon as I read that she
was an African-American

681
00:29:49.039 --> 00:29:51.478
woman, because I have
such bias against some of

682
00:29:51.478 --> 00:29:52.882
the privilege at this hospital,

683
00:29:52.882 --> 00:29:54.020
and I thought, "We'll see,"

684
00:29:54.020 --> 00:29:57.155
and so, then I read
that she had transferred

685
00:29:57.155 --> 00:30:00.057
her care from a city
hospital two months ago,

686
00:30:00.057 --> 00:30:01.555
and I have to say that for me,

687
00:30:01.555 --> 00:30:03.854
that makes a patient
inherently vulnerable,

688
00:30:03.854 --> 00:30:05.096
because you're not known,

689
00:30:05.096 --> 00:30:07.232
you don't have an advocate,

690
00:30:07.232 --> 00:30:09.287
nobody really is there

691
00:30:09.287 --> 00:30:12.399
to be your sort of
advocate in this hospital,

692
00:30:12.399 --> 00:30:14.233
and then I read that
she had also been here

693
00:30:14.233 --> 00:30:15.940
for a clinical trial,

694
00:30:15.940 --> 00:30:18.540
and again,

695
00:30:18.540 --> 00:30:19.968
for someone who works in palliative care,

696
00:30:19.968 --> 00:30:22.883
what I have a lot of fears around

697
00:30:22.883 --> 00:30:23.939
some clinical trials,

698
00:30:23.939 --> 00:30:27.480
and I think that one
thing that has been shown

699
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:29.047
in a lot of the literature is that

700
00:30:29.047 --> 00:30:31.219
no matter what your education level

701
00:30:31.219 --> 00:30:33.819
and what your view is, is that

702
00:30:33.819 --> 00:30:35.526
you're inherently vulnerable,

703
00:30:35.526 --> 00:30:38.324
and although

704
00:30:38.324 --> 00:30:39.357
it's a place that you can make a,

705
00:30:39.357 --> 00:30:41.528
that a miracle can happen if you do this,

706
00:30:41.528 --> 00:30:43.397
in most cases, in the patients that I see,

707
00:30:43.397 --> 00:30:44.802
it increases their symptoms,

708
00:30:44.802 --> 00:30:47.798
and it ensures that they
spend most of the last

709
00:30:47.798 --> 00:30:49.864
time in their life in a hospital,

710
00:30:49.864 --> 00:30:51.072
rather than with their family,

711
00:30:51.072 --> 00:30:52.534
so I'm biased to that,

712
00:30:52.534 --> 00:30:54.868
but I'm also particularly

713
00:30:54.868 --> 00:30:57.039
sensitive to making sure people understand

714
00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:59.384
what they're getting
into as a social worker,

715
00:30:59.384 --> 00:31:01.973
so, and then I saw that she had,

716
00:31:01.973 --> 00:31:04.319
you know, anxiety, depression, PTSD,

717
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.420
a history of IV drug use.

718
00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:09.253
She'd endorsed that she
used marijuana daily,

719
00:31:09.253 --> 00:31:12.991
which you should never do
in the emergency department

720
00:31:12.991 --> 00:31:15.894
because there's just automatic assumptions

721
00:31:15.894 --> 00:31:17.635
that are made, and so,

722
00:31:17.635 --> 00:31:19.365
and then,

723
00:31:19.365 --> 00:31:20.828
as I read the note what
I was realized is that

724
00:31:20.828 --> 00:31:22.906
she hadn't been given,

725
00:31:22.906 --> 00:31:26.993
she'd been seen as the
written notes suggested,

726
00:31:26.993 --> 00:31:30.743
it seemed like they assumed
that she was drug seeking.

727
00:31:30.743 --> 00:31:31.950
And so,

728
00:31:31.950 --> 00:31:36.950
I, I went immediately to
the electronic record,

729
00:31:37.082 --> 00:31:39.392
and this is a record that digs deeper,

730
00:31:39.392 --> 00:31:43.154
and I read a clinic note which
did not endorse any of this.

731
00:31:43.154 --> 00:31:45.197
It said that she had been compliant,

732
00:31:45.197 --> 00:31:47.752
she'd attended all of her clinics,

733
00:31:47.752 --> 00:31:50.364
and that they had no concerns

734
00:31:50.364 --> 00:31:53.220
about any use or drug misuse,

735
00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:56.134
and so, I was starting to get really angry

736
00:31:56.134 --> 00:31:58.944
about this situation, and I was thinking,

737
00:31:58.944 --> 00:32:00.406
something is fishy here,

738
00:32:00.406 --> 00:32:04.679
and then, I saw the CAT scan,

739
00:32:04.679 --> 00:32:06.084
which pulls up on the medical record

740
00:32:06.084 --> 00:32:08.580
and what it showed was that she

741
00:32:08.580 --> 00:32:10.356
had disease progression

742
00:32:10.356 --> 00:32:12.655
and it was breaking through her ribs,

743
00:32:12.655 --> 00:32:15.488
and in case you're wondering,

744
00:32:15.488 --> 00:32:18.959
that's painful, and you would get IV drugs

745
00:32:18.959 --> 00:32:20.863
if you went to the
hospital in this situation,

746
00:32:20.863 --> 00:32:23.324
and so I went crazy.

747
00:32:23.324 --> 00:32:24.137
Let's be clear.

748
00:32:24.137 --> 00:32:25.403
I went nuts.

749
00:32:25.403 --> 00:32:27.736
And I was 100% sure that this was racism,

750
00:32:27.736 --> 00:32:30.534
and I am ramping up,

751
00:32:30.534 --> 00:32:32.705
and my internal dialogue
was something like,

752
00:32:32.705 --> 00:32:34.040
"Are you freaking kidding me?

753
00:32:34.040 --> 00:32:34.911
"I hate this hospital!

754
00:32:34.911 --> 00:32:36.641
"How could I even be working here?

755
00:32:36.641 --> 00:32:37.849
"Oh, sure! The best hospital?

756
00:32:37.849 --> 00:32:39.404
"The best hospital in this state?

757
00:32:39.404 --> 00:32:40.414
"Sure, if you're white!

758
00:32:40.414 --> 00:32:42.620
"I bet if that doctor's mother walked in

759
00:32:42.620 --> 00:32:44.548
"with breaking ribs,
she would get IV drug,

760
00:32:44.548 --> 00:32:47.125
"I mean she would get IV pain meds."

761
00:32:47.125 --> 00:32:49.261
I mean, I was

762
00:32:49.261 --> 00:32:51.421
very angry,

763
00:32:51.421 --> 00:32:53.023
(audience laughs)

764
00:32:53.023 --> 00:32:54.625
and so was my patient,

765
00:32:54.625 --> 00:32:56.529
because as I'm ramping up,

766
00:32:56.529 --> 00:32:58.236
she's ramping up in the room behind me,

767
00:32:58.236 --> 00:32:59.931
and she's kicking out a nurse,

768
00:32:59.931 --> 00:33:01.765
of the IV nurse is coming out,

769
00:33:01.765 --> 00:33:03.658
and the IV nurse is walking by and like,

770
00:33:03.658 --> 00:33:05.968
"She won't even let me take her blood.

771
00:33:05.968 --> 00:33:07.408
"I mean, why would you
even come to this hospital

772
00:33:07.408 --> 00:33:09.381
"if you're not gonna let somebody,"

773
00:33:09.381 --> 00:33:10.078
you know,

774
00:33:10.078 --> 00:33:10.879
"take care of you?"

775
00:33:10.879 --> 00:33:12.818
And I'm thinking, well, you
know what they teach you

776
00:33:12.818 --> 00:33:15.349
about meeting the client where they are?

777
00:33:15.349 --> 00:33:16.614
We were in the same place

778
00:33:16.614 --> 00:33:17.578
because she was pissed

779
00:33:17.578 --> 00:33:19.517
and I was also,

780
00:33:19.517 --> 00:33:23.313
so, I go to the nurse
thinking I'm gonna get some

781
00:33:23.313 --> 00:33:25.821
recognition here or something and I say,

782
00:33:25.821 --> 00:33:27.295
"Hi, I'm the social worker.

783
00:33:27.295 --> 00:33:29.025
"I'm gonna be working with Tanya,"

784
00:33:29.025 --> 00:33:30.929
and she says, "She hates social workers."

785
00:33:30.929 --> 00:33:32.903
And I was like, "Yes.

786
00:33:32.903 --> 00:33:34.029
"She hasn't met me yet."

787
00:33:34.029 --> 00:33:35.028
(audience laughs)

788
00:33:35.028 --> 00:33:36.572
So, then I said,

789
00:33:36.572 --> 00:33:37.802
"Well, did she talk to
you about what happened

790
00:33:37.802 --> 00:33:38.963
"in the emergency department?"

791
00:33:38.963 --> 00:33:40.705
And the nurse looked at
me like I had two heads.

792
00:33:40.705 --> 00:33:42.876
She's like, "What happened
in the emergency department?"

793
00:33:42.876 --> 00:33:44.676
I was like, "Have you read the chart?"

794
00:33:44.676 --> 00:33:45.767
And she,

795
00:33:45.767 --> 00:33:47.671
and I was like, "this is discrimination.

796
00:33:47.671 --> 00:33:49.378
"Don't you think this is discrimination?"

797
00:33:49.378 --> 00:33:50.887
And the nurse was like, "No,

798
00:33:50.887 --> 00:33:52.524
"she has a history of IV drug use.

799
00:33:52.524 --> 00:33:54.753
"I mean, and she's got a
mental health history,"

800
00:33:54.753 --> 00:33:58.956
and I was like, I live on Mars, so,

801
00:33:58.956 --> 00:34:02.392
and now I'm a Smith graduate
and I care about anti-racism

802
00:34:02.392 --> 00:34:05.434
work and I've been
building up all of my anger

803
00:34:05.434 --> 00:34:08.105
for the last year about
every microaggression

804
00:34:08.105 --> 00:34:09.173
I've seen,

805
00:34:09.173 --> 00:34:10.972
and every single thing I
couldn't call anyone on,

806
00:34:10.972 --> 00:34:12.876
in this privileged place I work in,

807
00:34:12.876 --> 00:34:14.943
and I'm so mad,

808
00:34:14.943 --> 00:34:16.580
and

809
00:34:16.580 --> 00:34:18.043
then I have to go into the room.

810
00:34:18.043 --> 00:34:19.819
So I'm sure all you practice
professors will have

811
00:34:19.819 --> 00:34:23.720
a good time, like,
deconstructing all of my

812
00:34:23.720 --> 00:34:25.415
anger and what you do when you have this,

813
00:34:25.415 --> 00:34:26.692
and then you have to deal with it,

814
00:34:26.692 --> 00:34:27.958
so, you can have fun with that,

815
00:34:27.958 --> 00:34:29.757
(audience laughs)

816
00:34:29.757 --> 00:34:31.197
but, what,

817
00:34:31.197 --> 00:34:32.288
and then report back to me,

818
00:34:32.288 --> 00:34:35.133
so, okay,

819
00:34:35.133 --> 00:34:37.431
so anyway, I go into the room.

820
00:34:37.431 --> 00:34:39.033
I walk into the room,

821
00:34:39.033 --> 00:34:40.763
and I said, "Hi, I'm Arden.

822
00:34:40.763 --> 00:34:41.866
"I'm your social worker."

823
00:34:41.866 --> 00:34:43.933
Now, it's unclear what
was gonna get kick me,

824
00:34:43.933 --> 00:34:44.966
get me kicked out first,

825
00:34:44.966 --> 00:34:48.171
but, you know, many of my
identities being white,

826
00:34:48.171 --> 00:34:49.645
I'm sure was not top of the list,

827
00:34:49.645 --> 00:34:51.108
and also being a social worker, she said,

828
00:34:51.108 --> 00:34:53.114
"Oh no, no you are not my social worker.

829
00:34:53.114 --> 00:34:55.215
"I do not need another
one of you in my life.

830
00:34:55.215 --> 00:34:57.618
"You can just turn around
and walk right out."

831
00:34:57.618 --> 00:35:00.951
And I took a deep breath and said,

832
00:35:00.951 --> 00:35:03.551
"I saw what happened in
the emergency department,

833
00:35:03.551 --> 00:35:05.664
"and I'm pretty sure,

834
00:35:05.664 --> 00:35:07.162
"if you were a white kindergarten teacher,

835
00:35:07.162 --> 00:35:09.194
"that wouldn't have happened."

836
00:35:09.194 --> 00:35:11.318
And she looked at me,

837
00:35:11.318 --> 00:35:13.733
and sort of took a deep breath,

838
00:35:13.733 --> 00:35:15.927
and a little bit glared at me, and I said,

839
00:35:15.927 --> 00:35:17.936
"I want to file a complaint,

840
00:35:17.936 --> 00:35:19.573
"and I need your permission,

841
00:35:19.573 --> 00:35:22.673
"and I also want to make a plan

842
00:35:22.673 --> 00:35:24.914
"for the next time you come
in the emergency department

843
00:35:24.914 --> 00:35:28.478
"to do our very best that this
never happens to you again."

844
00:35:28.478 --> 00:35:30.788
And,

845
00:35:30.788 --> 00:35:33.447
then she said I could sit down,

846
00:35:33.447 --> 00:35:35.293
so, I got it, right?

847
00:35:35.293 --> 00:35:36.849
I got it.

848
00:35:36.849 --> 00:35:38.021
So this is the bold statement I took,

849
00:35:38.021 --> 00:35:39.461
but it isn't this bold statement.

850
00:35:39.461 --> 00:35:42.027
I did take it and we did file a complaint,

851
00:35:42.027 --> 00:35:44.767
and I was gonna talk a little
bit about the ramifications

852
00:35:44.767 --> 00:35:46.496
of that, but what I think is more,

853
00:35:46.496 --> 00:35:48.238
and we can, in your question
and answer if you need it,

854
00:35:48.238 --> 00:35:50.432
but, the,

855
00:35:50.432 --> 00:35:53.172
but what happened after
that was that because

856
00:35:53.172 --> 00:35:55.448
we filed this complaint,

857
00:35:55.448 --> 00:35:58.548
it brought the discussion

858
00:35:58.548 --> 00:36:01.253
into the room in every
single clinical conversation

859
00:36:01.253 --> 00:36:04.016
after that, and we were
able to really talk about

860
00:36:04.016 --> 00:36:06.826
what it meant to be a person of color in,

861
00:36:06.826 --> 00:36:08.590
at this particular hospital,

862
00:36:08.590 --> 00:36:12.096
and what it meant to really,

863
00:36:12.096 --> 00:36:15.266
what it meant to her to
be on a clinical trial

864
00:36:15.266 --> 00:36:18.261
and how that intersected with her history

865
00:36:18.261 --> 00:36:19.271
and what she viewed,

866
00:36:19.271 --> 00:36:22.766
and her family's beliefs
around these certain things.

867
00:36:22.766 --> 00:36:25.576
It brought,

868
00:36:25.576 --> 00:36:27.178
it just brought a lot
into the conversation.

869
00:36:27.178 --> 00:36:29.477
I was also able to advocate for her

870
00:36:29.477 --> 00:36:32.234
in a very different way.

871
00:36:32.751 --> 00:36:36.495
Look, I'm not even using my notes.

872
00:36:36.756 --> 00:36:39.519
I think that,

873
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:40.483
the thing is,

874
00:36:40.483 --> 00:36:42.120
around end-of-life issues

875
00:36:42.120 --> 00:36:44.163
and around people making
these kinds of decisions,

876
00:36:44.163 --> 00:36:45.823
the truth of the matter is

877
00:36:45.823 --> 00:36:48.401
your culture, your racial identity,

878
00:36:48.401 --> 00:36:49.864
the history, your family,

879
00:36:49.864 --> 00:36:52.929
all of these things are
very, very important,

880
00:36:52.929 --> 00:36:54.531
and in the hospital that I work in,

881
00:36:54.531 --> 00:36:55.971
it's white-washed.

882
00:36:55.971 --> 00:36:57.468
It's completely white-washed.

883
00:36:57.468 --> 00:36:59.802
You become a 25-year old

884
00:36:59.802 --> 00:37:02.577
with bladder cancer who's here.

885
00:37:02.577 --> 00:37:05.479
Race is not written into

886
00:37:05.479 --> 00:37:07.511
the medical records,

887
00:37:07.511 --> 00:37:09.984
especially not if you're white,

888
00:37:09.984 --> 00:37:12.376
or they think you're white.

889
00:37:12.376 --> 00:37:13.490
It's not,

890
00:37:13.490 --> 00:37:15.150
it's not talked about,

891
00:37:15.150 --> 00:37:18.053
it's not brought into this situation,

892
00:37:18.053 --> 00:37:20.061
and I think that what changed for me

893
00:37:20.061 --> 00:37:22.453
was as we began to do the clinical work

894
00:37:22.453 --> 00:37:24.903
and talked about what was important to her

895
00:37:24.903 --> 00:37:27.701
and how she wanted to make decisions

896
00:37:27.701 --> 00:37:30.069
and decisions she had to
navigate within herself

897
00:37:30.069 --> 00:37:32.635
and her family around her code status,

898
00:37:32.635 --> 00:37:36.211
around where she wanted to die,

899
00:37:36.211 --> 00:37:37.337
and how that,

900
00:37:37.337 --> 00:37:39.078
how that played out.

901
00:37:39.078 --> 00:37:41.087
The deeper the
conversations that happened,

902
00:37:41.087 --> 00:37:42.979
the more I realized how essential this is,

903
00:37:42.979 --> 00:37:45.255
especially in the work that I do,

904
00:37:45.255 --> 00:37:48.413
and so, I

905
00:37:48.413 --> 00:37:50.120
tried to figure out a
way that I could really

906
00:37:50.120 --> 00:37:52.395
bring this in to my clinical practice

907
00:37:52.395 --> 00:37:55.123
in every aspect,

908
00:37:55.123 --> 00:37:57.596
and I came up with a question

909
00:37:57.596 --> 00:37:59.930
that I ask all of my patients now,

910
00:37:59.930 --> 00:38:02.972
and it is simply,

911
00:38:02.972 --> 00:38:05.224
you know, is there anything
about your racial identity,

912
00:38:05.224 --> 00:38:06.873
your culture, your religion,

913
00:38:06.873 --> 00:38:08.138
your spirituality that we should know

914
00:38:08.138 --> 00:38:10.042
that would influence
how you make decisions

915
00:38:10.042 --> 00:38:11.563
in your care?

916
00:38:11.563 --> 00:38:13.084
And,

917
00:38:13.084 --> 00:38:15.069
that seems like a really small sentence.

918
00:38:15.069 --> 00:38:17.716
It doesn't even seem
like anti-racism work.

919
00:38:17.716 --> 00:38:19.214
It doesn't seem like it,

920
00:38:19.214 --> 00:38:21.594
but in the situation that I'm in,

921
00:38:21.594 --> 00:38:24.590
and in the vulnerability with the clients

922
00:38:24.590 --> 00:38:25.925
and where we all are,

923
00:38:25.925 --> 00:38:27.794
it makes a huge difference,

924
00:38:27.794 --> 00:38:29.059
and it opens a door,

925
00:38:29.059 --> 00:38:32.264
and I was trying to think of a parallel

926
00:38:32.264 --> 00:38:33.970
and I'm,

927
00:38:33.970 --> 00:38:36.072
I'm a lesbian and I will say
that there's a big difference

928
00:38:36.072 --> 00:38:38.104
for me when someone says,
"Do you have a partner?"

929
00:38:38.104 --> 00:38:39.706
Versus, "Do you have a husband?"

930
00:38:39.706 --> 00:38:41.796
And I feel like it's that same sentence

931
00:38:41.796 --> 00:38:44.675
around opening the door
for racial and cultural

932
00:38:44.675 --> 00:38:47.450
differences that gives me a foothold.

933
00:38:47.450 --> 00:38:50.875
It doesn't make the relationship.

934
00:38:50.875 --> 00:38:52.012
I have to do work,

935
00:38:52.012 --> 00:38:53.046
and I have to do my own work,

936
00:38:53.046 --> 00:38:56.761
and I have to continually
ask this in different ways,

937
00:38:56.761 --> 00:38:59.896
but it makes me just a tiny bit safer,

938
00:38:59.896 --> 00:39:01.649
and in the environment that I work in,

939
00:39:01.649 --> 00:39:03.796
it is the work.

940
00:39:03.796 --> 00:39:05.364
And so,

941
00:39:05.364 --> 00:39:07.500
I think that that's the piece
that I want to leave you with,

942
00:39:07.500 --> 00:39:10.240
and we can talk about my reaction
and everything like that.

943
00:39:10.240 --> 00:39:11.877
I did get to work with her

944
00:39:11.877 --> 00:39:13.479
because I made that plan

945
00:39:13.479 --> 00:39:15.708
that set her up in the
emergency department,

946
00:39:15.708 --> 00:39:18.344
and they called me every time I came,

947
00:39:18.344 --> 00:39:19.876
and there were plenty of situations

948
00:39:19.876 --> 00:39:22.779
that she certainly needed
an advocate in this,

949
00:39:22.779 --> 00:39:27.249
and I appreciated working with her.

950
00:39:27.249 --> 00:39:30.169
(audience and panelists applaud)

951
00:39:42.307 --> 00:39:44.176
- Good evening, everyone.

952
00:39:44.176 --> 00:39:46.992
- [Audience] Good evening.

953
00:39:47.044 --> 00:39:48.739
- So,

954
00:39:48.739 --> 00:39:52.013
my name is Enroue Halfkenny.

955
00:39:52.013 --> 00:39:54.416
The multiple ways I identify,

956
00:39:54.416 --> 00:39:57.644
I'm a 45-year old, heterosexual father

957
00:39:57.644 --> 00:40:00.418
of two wonderful kids who

958
00:40:00.418 --> 00:40:03.948
should be getting close to bedtime now.

959
00:40:03.948 --> 00:40:08.592
I'm a multiracial black male.

960
00:40:08.592 --> 00:40:11.901
My heritage is African,

961
00:40:11.901 --> 00:40:14.269
Native American, Micmac,

962
00:40:14.269 --> 00:40:17.241
Irish and Swedish.

963
00:40:17.241 --> 00:40:19.935
And, what I actually
would like to do first

964
00:40:19.935 --> 00:40:21.305
is

965
00:40:21.305 --> 00:40:23.139
send a

966
00:40:23.139 --> 00:40:24.973
thanks for

967
00:40:24.973 --> 00:40:26.042
my own ancestors

968
00:40:26.042 --> 00:40:27.783
for doing what they did

969
00:40:27.783 --> 00:40:30.976
so that I have this opportunity
to be alive right now.

970
00:40:30.976 --> 00:40:32.891
I also want to thank

971
00:40:32.891 --> 00:40:34.285
all of your ancestors

972
00:40:34.285 --> 00:40:35.179
for doing what they did

973
00:40:35.179 --> 00:40:38.162
so that you can be alive
and here and share this time

974
00:40:38.162 --> 00:40:40.032
and this space, here together,

975
00:40:40.032 --> 00:40:43.259
and also the ancestors and
the spirits of this land,

976
00:40:43.259 --> 00:40:44.664
so I just want to take a moment

977
00:40:44.664 --> 00:40:47.462
and give thanks to all of these forces,

978
00:40:47.462 --> 00:40:50.109
all of the ways that we
strive to connect with

979
00:40:50.109 --> 00:40:51.792
who we are,

980
00:40:51.792 --> 00:40:54.068
the mystery of life and
whatever that means for you,

981
00:40:54.068 --> 00:40:55.740
so I just want to take
a moment to do that,

982
00:40:55.740 --> 00:40:58.073
and I actually also want to

983
00:40:58.073 --> 00:41:00.512
just pour a small libation in honor,

984
00:41:00.512 --> 00:41:03.252
and to nurture these forces as I seek

985
00:41:03.252 --> 00:41:06.636
as hopefully we all seek
to be nurtured by them.

986
00:41:18.902 --> 00:41:20.771
So you have this

987
00:41:20.771 --> 00:41:22.396
case in front of you,

988
00:41:22.396 --> 00:41:25.937
so I'm not going to read
through the entire case.

989
00:41:25.937 --> 00:41:28.143
I'm gonna touch upon some elements of it.

990
00:41:28.143 --> 00:41:31.115
So I work primarily with

991
00:41:31.115 --> 00:41:33.542
young people who've exhibited some kind of

992
00:41:33.542 --> 00:41:35.283
problematic sexual behavior

993
00:41:35.283 --> 00:41:37.455
in addition to

994
00:41:37.455 --> 00:41:39.985
lots of layers of trauma

995
00:41:39.985 --> 00:41:41.750
that they've experienced
and that their families

996
00:41:41.750 --> 00:41:42.888
have experienced.

997
00:41:42.888 --> 00:41:43.956
Can everyone hear me okay?

998
00:41:43.956 --> 00:41:44.955
(audience murmurs)

999
00:41:44.955 --> 00:41:46.290
Yeah? Great.

1000
00:41:46.290 --> 00:41:49.297
I heard a no I think, so,

1001
00:41:49.297 --> 00:41:51.700
so, what that means,

1002
00:41:51.700 --> 00:41:54.138
and what I do when I meet young people,

1003
00:41:54.138 --> 00:41:58.736
and the age range is
anywhere from five to 22,

1004
00:41:58.736 --> 00:42:01.406
and this, the behaviors are

1005
00:42:01.406 --> 00:42:03.612
anything from

1006
00:42:03.612 --> 00:42:05.075
sexualized language,

1007
00:42:05.075 --> 00:42:07.617
when people get agitated or disregulated,

1008
00:42:07.617 --> 00:42:11.808
all the way up to pretty
severe sexual assault,

1009
00:42:11.808 --> 00:42:14.374
and one thing I'm clear about

1010
00:42:14.374 --> 00:42:16.081
when I work with people,

1011
00:42:16.081 --> 00:42:17.590
and people in this field
will talk about it,

1012
00:42:17.590 --> 00:42:20.295
it's called problem sexual behavior

1013
00:42:20.295 --> 00:42:24.609
because it's not a character issue.

1014
00:42:24.765 --> 00:42:27.226
It's not about who they
are as human beings,

1015
00:42:27.226 --> 00:42:31.905
though, they certainly come
with a lot of shame about that

1016
00:42:31.905 --> 00:42:32.834
that they hear from the media,

1017
00:42:32.834 --> 00:42:34.506
that they might hear from their families,

1018
00:42:34.506 --> 00:42:37.049
or from other people who they know.

1019
00:42:37.049 --> 00:42:39.080
So I really talk about these,

1020
00:42:39.080 --> 00:42:40.044
they've exhibited,

1021
00:42:40.044 --> 00:42:43.086
they've done something that's a problem

1022
00:42:43.086 --> 00:42:46.081
and it's in the realm of sex,

1023
00:42:46.081 --> 00:42:49.018
sexuality, sexual contact,

1024
00:42:49.018 --> 00:42:54.018
though the desire is rarely about that.

1025
00:42:54.394 --> 00:42:56.460
Suffice to say it is much
more about people seeking

1026
00:42:56.460 --> 00:42:58.504
connection and then this is the way

1027
00:42:58.504 --> 00:43:01.139
it gets expressed, so,

1028
00:43:01.139 --> 00:43:02.834
I'm clear about that when I talk to them,

1029
00:43:02.834 --> 00:43:05.342
when I talk to the individuals
and I talk to their families.

1030
00:43:05.342 --> 00:43:07.536
So really talking about these behaviors

1031
00:43:07.536 --> 00:43:10.172
and that the goal is that they get to have

1032
00:43:10.172 --> 00:43:12.540
just as the goal with a lot of treatment,

1033
00:43:12.540 --> 00:43:14.050
hopefully it's successful
and they get to have

1034
00:43:14.050 --> 00:43:15.536
the kind of lives that they want,

1035
00:43:15.536 --> 00:43:17.022
to make the choices that they want,

1036
00:43:17.022 --> 00:43:18.148
and,

1037
00:43:18.148 --> 00:43:20.981
we deal with very real issues around risk,

1038
00:43:20.981 --> 00:43:22.618
so that they're safe,

1039
00:43:22.618 --> 00:43:26.478
and the people around them are safe.

1040
00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:28.666
And I say that,

1041
00:43:28.666 --> 00:43:29.293
I'm kind of jumping ahead,

1042
00:43:29.293 --> 00:43:32.463
but I say that because that
was part of the foundation

1043
00:43:32.463 --> 00:43:37.060
of my relationship with Amir.

1044
00:43:37.060 --> 00:43:40.613
And it allowed for a lot
of the work to happen,

1045
00:43:40.613 --> 00:43:43.005
so there's that kind of stance that I took

1046
00:43:43.005 --> 00:43:44.363
in the beginning of treatment,

1047
00:43:44.363 --> 00:43:48.380
but this is also after eight
months of working together,

1048
00:43:48.380 --> 00:43:51.085
both individually,

1049
00:43:51.085 --> 00:43:54.452
I also did sessions with his,

1050
00:43:54.452 --> 00:43:56.287
family sessions with him,

1051
00:43:56.287 --> 00:43:58.423
his biological mother and stepfather,

1052
00:43:58.423 --> 00:44:01.627
also family sessions with just his mother,

1053
00:44:01.627 --> 00:44:05.848
and also with just his
mother and stepfather.

1054
00:44:07.572 --> 00:44:12.059
The event that happened,

1055
00:44:12.134 --> 00:44:14.445
where he came into the session

1056
00:44:14.445 --> 00:44:16.616
and began, you know,

1057
00:44:16.616 --> 00:44:19.646
describing how he was lost
in a predominantly black

1058
00:44:19.646 --> 00:44:20.911
and poor neighborhood,

1059
00:44:20.911 --> 00:44:23.489
and going on a rant and a tirade

1060
00:44:23.489 --> 00:44:27.053
about "those people."

1061
00:44:27.053 --> 00:44:29.387
He didn't, he actually didn't,

1062
00:44:29.387 --> 00:44:31.453
you know, the n-word
was not bantered around,

1063
00:44:31.453 --> 00:44:34.959
which was good.

1064
00:44:34.959 --> 00:44:38.094
But, you know, there's
certainly no shortage of ways

1065
00:44:38.094 --> 00:44:40.463
that he expressed some real hatred

1066
00:44:40.463 --> 00:44:43.504
towards, in this instance, black people,

1067
00:44:43.504 --> 00:44:45.002
and in particular black males,

1068
00:44:45.002 --> 00:44:47.475
but in the past, he'd also

1069
00:44:47.475 --> 00:44:50.401
had kind of similar reactions towards

1070
00:44:50.401 --> 00:44:53.117
Latinos,

1071
00:44:53.117 --> 00:44:55.347
people who are Chinese,

1072
00:44:55.347 --> 00:45:00.347
and other racial and ethnic minorities,

1073
00:45:00.385 --> 00:45:03.346
and so,

1074
00:45:03.346 --> 00:45:04.693
in the past,

1075
00:45:04.693 --> 00:45:06.190
I'd actually kind of
taken the stance of like,

1076
00:45:06.190 --> 00:45:08.628
okay, I have this social
justice background,

1077
00:45:08.628 --> 00:45:11.566
both from Smith as well as being raised by

1078
00:45:11.566 --> 00:45:15.374
my parents who are
revolutionary organizers,

1079
00:45:15.374 --> 00:45:17.266
and radicals,

1080
00:45:17.266 --> 00:45:18.834
and so I was,

1081
00:45:18.834 --> 00:45:20.598
in earlier sessions,
I took more of a like,

1082
00:45:20.598 --> 00:45:23.803
well, let's look at the
language you're using

1083
00:45:23.803 --> 00:45:25.382
and how you're relating to people,

1084
00:45:25.382 --> 00:45:27.216
and how do we kind of deconstruct that,

1085
00:45:27.216 --> 00:45:30.246
and that really didn't go anywhere,

1086
00:45:30.246 --> 00:45:31.523
I mean, I think there was kind of a way

1087
00:45:31.523 --> 00:45:33.323
I thought I was kind of doing this good

1088
00:45:33.323 --> 00:45:35.018
piece of work to help have him have

1089
00:45:35.018 --> 00:45:36.295
a different outlook about himself,

1090
00:45:36.295 --> 00:45:37.827
and where he's positioned in society

1091
00:45:37.827 --> 00:45:39.360
and privilege, et cetera,

1092
00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:43.441
but it didn't really stick, clearly.

1093
00:45:43.830 --> 00:45:45.629
And so,

1094
00:45:45.629 --> 00:45:48.393
you know, I was pretty upset

1095
00:45:48.393 --> 00:45:50.564
as he came in and kind of was going into

1096
00:45:50.564 --> 00:45:54.784
this tirade, and,

1097
00:45:55.010 --> 00:45:56.740
the thing that,

1098
00:45:56.740 --> 00:46:00.084
you know as I think about it,

1099
00:46:00.084 --> 00:46:01.082
you know, I'm sitting there,

1100
00:46:01.082 --> 00:46:02.383
he's kind of going on and on,

1101
00:46:02.383 --> 00:46:04.844
I can see how kind of
upset and anxious he is,

1102
00:46:04.844 --> 00:46:07.491
but it's much more of kind of a history

1103
00:46:07.491 --> 00:46:09.825
that he has around
identifying with an aggressor,

1104
00:46:09.825 --> 00:46:12.089
so, really kind of turning whatever

1105
00:46:12.089 --> 00:46:14.294
feelings of fear, sadness he has,

1106
00:46:14.294 --> 00:46:19.066
and really kind of attacking people.

1107
00:46:19.066 --> 00:46:23.826
And so I was trying to sit there,

1108
00:46:23.826 --> 00:46:25.440
composed,

1109
00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:28.540
and truly try to listen to,
clinically, what was happening.

1110
00:46:28.540 --> 00:46:30.142
There's an acronym I came across

1111
00:46:30.142 --> 00:46:32.673
which is WAIT, W-A-I-T.

1112
00:46:32.673 --> 00:46:35.285
And it stands for Why Am I Talking?

1113
00:46:35.285 --> 00:46:37.213
(audience laughs)

1114
00:46:37.213 --> 00:46:39.384
And,

1115
00:46:39.384 --> 00:46:40.417
I'm not gonna use that now,

1116
00:46:40.417 --> 00:46:42.553
but, in the moment--

1117
00:46:42.553 --> 00:46:43.494
- "I'm not gonna use that now." (laughs)

1118
00:46:43.494 --> 00:46:46.396
- There was a way in which,

1119
00:46:46.396 --> 00:46:47.766
you know, I was being triggered

1120
00:46:47.766 --> 00:46:50.959
and I could tell that
anything that kind of came

1121
00:46:50.959 --> 00:46:52.433
from me, right?

1122
00:46:52.433 --> 00:46:53.072
Anything,

1123
00:46:53.072 --> 00:46:54.802
any kind of intervention
that I was gonna try to do

1124
00:46:54.802 --> 00:46:58.203
was really coming from that place,

1125
00:46:58.203 --> 00:47:00.665
and, I knew,

1126
00:47:00.665 --> 00:47:02.511
I don't think I was thinking
this much at the time,

1127
00:47:02.511 --> 00:47:03.637
but I'm sure there was,

1128
00:47:03.637 --> 00:47:04.902
knowing that that hadn't
worked in the past,

1129
00:47:04.902 --> 00:47:07.712
so let's try something different.

1130
00:47:07.712 --> 00:47:09.813
But really just sitting with him there

1131
00:47:09.813 --> 00:47:10.916
and listening,

1132
00:47:10.916 --> 00:47:13.053
and having,

1133
00:47:13.053 --> 00:47:14.817
feeling all these things come up in me

1134
00:47:14.817 --> 00:47:17.116
and kind of not wanting to listen to him

1135
00:47:17.116 --> 00:47:19.926
and wanting to change the conversation,

1136
00:47:19.926 --> 00:47:23.025
but saying, well, that's
not really why I'm here,

1137
00:47:23.025 --> 00:47:26.218
and what he's actually saying

1138
00:47:26.218 --> 00:47:28.204
when I really listen to him,

1139
00:47:28.204 --> 00:47:30.200
it's not about me,

1140
00:47:30.200 --> 00:47:31.605
so that kind of,

1141
00:47:31.605 --> 00:47:34.937
I could calm down a little bit,

1142
00:47:34.937 --> 00:47:36.377
and part of the reason I knew that is,

1143
00:47:36.377 --> 00:47:38.548
so we have this original
conversation around

1144
00:47:38.548 --> 00:47:39.918
problem sexual behavior,

1145
00:47:39.918 --> 00:47:41.880
and he was someone who

1146
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:45.282
partly due to his attachment history

1147
00:47:45.282 --> 00:47:49.340
or really,

1148
00:47:49.926 --> 00:47:52.492
difficult and kind of distorted attachment

1149
00:47:52.492 --> 00:47:54.593
that he currently has,

1150
00:47:54.593 --> 00:47:56.729
really looked to me for approval

1151
00:47:56.729 --> 00:47:58.064
on a lot of occasions.

1152
00:47:58.064 --> 00:47:59.864
He was very competent in

1153
00:47:59.864 --> 00:48:02.407
martial arts and

1154
00:48:02.407 --> 00:48:05.239
would actually want to try to
want to show me some moves.

1155
00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:06.911
Not on me, but kind of in the room, like,

1156
00:48:06.911 --> 00:48:08.641
"Oh, I can do this and I made this guy

1157
00:48:08.641 --> 00:48:10.545
"almost pass out,"

1158
00:48:10.545 --> 00:48:12.112
and you know, kind of prove how strong

1159
00:48:12.112 --> 00:48:13.540
I was to him, or he'd

1160
00:48:13.540 --> 00:48:15.015
want to show me how many
pushups he could do.

1161
00:48:15.015 --> 00:48:17.383
He's like, "yeah, I'm doing
like, you know, 100 pushups

1162
00:48:17.383 --> 00:48:18.010
"a day, watch,

1163
00:48:18.010 --> 00:48:19.624
"I can just do these
pushups during the session."

1164
00:48:19.624 --> 00:48:22.991
I was like, really, you
don't have to do that,

1165
00:48:22.991 --> 00:48:24.953
and it was actually,

1166
00:48:24.953 --> 00:48:26.451
so this other piece I could communicate,

1167
00:48:26.451 --> 00:48:27.623
like, you don't have to do that.

1168
00:48:27.623 --> 00:48:29.829
You don't have to prove anything to me.

1169
00:48:29.829 --> 00:48:32.035
You don't have to prove
how much of a man you are,

1170
00:48:32.035 --> 00:48:34.241
how strong you are.

1171
00:48:34.241 --> 00:48:35.925
And that was kind of connected to

1172
00:48:35.925 --> 00:48:37.666
his own feelings of,

1173
00:48:37.666 --> 00:48:39.802
well you know, I'm straight,
and I know I did this

1174
00:48:39.802 --> 00:48:42.577
to this young boy, but
I'm a man and I'm strong,

1175
00:48:42.577 --> 00:48:44.110
and no one's gonna push me around,

1176
00:48:44.110 --> 00:48:46.002
and, so I really just kind of

1177
00:48:46.002 --> 00:48:47.244
would make comments, just like,

1178
00:48:47.244 --> 00:48:48.077
"It's really okay.

1179
00:48:48.077 --> 00:48:51.386
"You don't have to prove yourself to me.

1180
00:48:51.386 --> 00:48:52.582
"You can do that, that's okay.

1181
00:48:52.582 --> 00:48:56.053
"No, I'm not gonna show you
how many pushups I can do,"

1182
00:48:56.053 --> 00:48:57.586
or, these things, et cetera,

1183
00:48:57.586 --> 00:48:59.397
and he would kind of want
me to join him in that way,

1184
00:48:59.397 --> 00:49:01.858
and I really tried to model that

1185
00:49:01.858 --> 00:49:04.668
there are other ways to
be a man in the world

1186
00:49:04.668 --> 00:49:07.199
without doing that.

1187
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:08.998
And so I had an experience of him

1188
00:49:08.998 --> 00:49:11.843
in kind of a trust in the
process and the relationship

1189
00:49:11.843 --> 00:49:14.513
that really helped me to
be able to sit and be quiet

1190
00:49:14.513 --> 00:49:18.240
and listen and actually pay
attention to what was happening.

1191
00:49:18.240 --> 00:49:20.643
And what I began to notice and really hear

1192
00:49:20.643 --> 00:49:22.779
was the amount of fear that he had

1193
00:49:22.779 --> 00:49:24.381
and the ways that he was turning that into

1194
00:49:24.381 --> 00:49:25.891
kind of lashing out,

1195
00:49:25.891 --> 00:49:28.817
and I just slowed him down

1196
00:49:28.817 --> 00:49:32.288
and helped him to just pay attention

1197
00:49:32.288 --> 00:49:34.761
to what he was actually feeling,

1198
00:49:34.761 --> 00:49:38.766
which is not something that
he really wanted to do,

1199
00:49:38.766 --> 00:49:40.496
or had a lot of practice doing,

1200
00:49:40.496 --> 00:49:42.272
and so, we would just practice,

1201
00:49:42.272 --> 00:49:46.104
in that moment, we'd just
practice sitting with that,

1202
00:49:46.104 --> 00:49:48.136
and that led him to be able to feel

1203
00:49:48.136 --> 00:49:49.238
what was going on

1204
00:49:49.238 --> 00:49:51.909
without it being attached
to what he thought

1205
00:49:51.909 --> 00:49:53.940
or how he thought he needed to react

1206
00:49:53.940 --> 00:49:55.821
towards what was triggering that.

1207
00:49:55.821 --> 00:49:57.981
So I wasn't going to get into

1208
00:49:57.981 --> 00:50:02.358
were his fears valid or not?

1209
00:50:02.358 --> 00:50:02.961
Right?

1210
00:50:02.961 --> 00:50:05.353
He felt anxious

1211
00:50:05.353 --> 00:50:08.023
and that anxiety triggered
this whole reactivity,

1212
00:50:08.023 --> 00:50:10.891
and that trigger was
really the part that we

1213
00:50:10.891 --> 00:50:12.528
paid attention to.

1214
00:50:12.528 --> 00:50:15.431
And,

1215
00:50:15.431 --> 00:50:17.300
you know, this didn't,

1216
00:50:17.300 --> 00:50:18.832
for myself being able to sit with it,

1217
00:50:18.832 --> 00:50:21.967
so as I saw that shift in him, right,

1218
00:50:21.967 --> 00:50:25.601
my own kind of reactivity really dissolved

1219
00:50:25.601 --> 00:50:26.599
and kind of went away,

1220
00:50:26.599 --> 00:50:27.853
and certainly I'm not,

1221
00:50:27.853 --> 00:50:29.780
I wasn't happy because

1222
00:50:29.780 --> 00:50:31.220
he still had these views of people

1223
00:50:31.220 --> 00:50:33.751
and still saw people of color

1224
00:50:33.751 --> 00:50:35.284
and people identified as gay,

1225
00:50:35.284 --> 00:50:38.430
or people who he saw as

1226
00:50:38.430 --> 00:50:40.891
less than himself, right?

1227
00:50:40.891 --> 00:50:44.560
I wasn't shifting that and
transforming that all of a sudden

1228
00:50:44.560 --> 00:50:45.698
but it was like, look,

1229
00:50:45.698 --> 00:50:48.972
you get to feel your
feelings and not have that

1230
00:50:48.972 --> 00:50:52.908
turn into this way of
enacting whatever kinds of

1231
00:50:52.908 --> 00:50:55.706
violence and anger that you think

1232
00:50:55.706 --> 00:50:59.548
is going to lead to feeling good.

1233
00:50:59.548 --> 00:51:02.788
And so that, that became the work,

1234
00:51:02.788 --> 00:51:07.420
and, you know, there
was both for me the way

1235
00:51:07.420 --> 00:51:09.556
of kind of looking at
this in the large way,

1236
00:51:09.556 --> 00:51:13.991
but I think the biggest piece was

1237
00:51:13.991 --> 00:51:15.698
me having practice, actually,

1238
00:51:15.698 --> 00:51:19.193
through meditation practice
and my spiritual practice,

1239
00:51:19.193 --> 00:51:21.039
sitting with my own feelings,

1240
00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:22.072
with my own thoughts and feelings,

1241
00:51:22.072 --> 00:51:25.276
and A, knowing that
they're not necessarily

1242
00:51:25.276 --> 00:51:28.736
accurate or a clear thing
about what reality is,

1243
00:51:28.736 --> 00:51:30.071
they're my thoughts and my feelings,

1244
00:51:30.071 --> 00:51:32.175
and I don't actually have
to do anything with them,

1245
00:51:32.175 --> 00:51:36.732
I can have my thoughts and feelings and,

1246
00:51:38.816 --> 00:51:40.186
there they are, and
they're gonna keep going,

1247
00:51:40.186 --> 00:51:40.824
right?

1248
00:51:40.824 --> 00:51:41.753
Just like the weather here, right?

1249
00:51:41.753 --> 00:51:42.694
You just wait long enough

1250
00:51:42.694 --> 00:51:46.153
and we'll get a nice
thunderstorm rolling through.

1251
00:51:46.153 --> 00:51:48.557
And that really became,

1252
00:51:48.557 --> 00:51:52.527
that's one piece that kind
of anchored this work,

1253
00:51:52.527 --> 00:51:53.897
as well as the kind of relationship

1254
00:51:53.897 --> 00:51:55.801
that we had had and the clinical work

1255
00:51:55.801 --> 00:52:00.260
that I was confident around at that stage.

1256
00:52:00.260 --> 00:52:02.175
So I'm happy to obviously
answer any questions

1257
00:52:02.175 --> 00:52:04.242
that people have

1258
00:52:04.242 --> 00:52:05.739
when that time comes,

1259
00:52:05.739 --> 00:52:07.980
which is as soon as I stop speaking.

1260
00:52:07.980 --> 00:52:09.745
(audience laughs)

1261
00:52:09.745 --> 00:52:11.243
And so thank you all.

1262
00:52:11.243 --> 00:52:11.918
(audience applauds)

1263
00:52:11.918 --> 00:52:14.124
- [Mike] All right, thank you.

1264
00:52:14.124 --> 00:52:16.708
(audience applauds)

1265
00:52:19.279 --> 00:52:21.079
So as moderator, I will take some liberty

1266
00:52:21.079 --> 00:52:22.762
to ask some questions as people start

1267
00:52:22.762 --> 00:52:24.597
filing up for questions.

1268
00:52:24.597 --> 00:52:28.068
So I do also want to model

1269
00:52:28.068 --> 00:52:31.040
just, paraphrasing what I heard or got,

1270
00:52:31.040 --> 00:52:32.375
so with Elizabeth,

1271
00:52:32.375 --> 00:52:33.641
one of the things that I heard from you

1272
00:52:33.641 --> 00:52:36.938
is the importance of
culturally appropriate,

1273
00:52:36.938 --> 00:52:39.109
not only having a supervisor relationship,

1274
00:52:39.109 --> 00:52:41.710
but also working with the client,

1275
00:52:41.710 --> 00:52:44.148
and particularly as it comes to language

1276
00:52:44.148 --> 00:52:46.748
or having at least an
interpreter available,

1277
00:52:46.748 --> 00:52:47.921
and I'm wondering, like,

1278
00:52:47.921 --> 00:52:51.125
and this is something you
can respond to or pass,

1279
00:52:51.125 --> 00:52:52.890
in your experience, because,

1280
00:52:52.890 --> 00:52:55.166
depending on what part of
Latin America you're from

1281
00:52:55.166 --> 00:52:56.164
or Central America,

1282
00:52:56.164 --> 00:52:57.766
there are different push-pull factors,

1283
00:52:57.766 --> 00:53:00.959
how you are able to
negotiate working with Carmen

1284
00:53:00.959 --> 00:53:01.632
in that way,

1285
00:53:01.632 --> 00:53:03.432
what that meant for you,

1286
00:53:03.432 --> 00:53:06.102
and I'm also wondering if that is enough,

1287
00:53:06.102 --> 00:53:08.343
so, if you're just able
to speak the language,

1288
00:53:08.343 --> 00:53:10.874
what if I'm a black clinician

1289
00:53:10.874 --> 00:53:12.314
and I spoke the language, but,

1290
00:53:12.314 --> 00:53:15.019
I still may not be able
to identify culturally,

1291
00:53:15.019 --> 00:53:16.644
and what that means.

1292
00:53:16.644 --> 00:53:19.210
Also, so, with Arden,

1293
00:53:19.210 --> 00:53:20.824
one of the things I
heard was the importance

1294
00:53:20.824 --> 00:53:23.157
of validating the
experiences of your client,

1295
00:53:23.157 --> 00:53:26.513
in particular around
issues of race and racism,

1296
00:53:26.513 --> 00:53:28.231
and in this particular,

1297
00:53:28.231 --> 00:53:30.367
after you did your detective work,

1298
00:53:30.367 --> 00:53:33.629
it became pretty clear
how egregious it was,

1299
00:53:33.629 --> 00:53:35.232
so it was hard to contest

1300
00:53:35.232 --> 00:53:38.134
that some action shouldn't be taken,

1301
00:53:38.134 --> 00:53:41.304
so I'm wondering if there
are nuance situations

1302
00:53:41.304 --> 00:53:43.243
where it may not be as conspicuous,

1303
00:53:43.243 --> 00:53:46.342
where you have to step in, intervene,

1304
00:53:46.342 --> 00:53:48.316
even though there might
be something that is not

1305
00:53:48.316 --> 00:53:52.380
quite as clear as that particular case.

1306
00:53:52.380 --> 00:53:54.388
And then, Enroue,

1307
00:53:54.388 --> 00:53:57.256
what I got was the importance
of waiting and trusting

1308
00:53:57.256 --> 00:53:59.055
the process,

1309
00:53:59.055 --> 00:54:02.318
letting your client let you
know what their needs are,

1310
00:54:02.318 --> 00:54:03.235
and for you,

1311
00:54:03.235 --> 00:54:06.265
what I'm wondering is
particularly thinking of

1312
00:54:06.265 --> 00:54:09.574
clinicians of color
working with white clients

1313
00:54:09.574 --> 00:54:12.302
that may enact racial epithets,

1314
00:54:12.302 --> 00:54:15.774
like, were you able to
lean on a supervisor

1315
00:54:15.774 --> 00:54:16.842
or a colleague,

1316
00:54:16.842 --> 00:54:19.210
or were you able to talk with someone

1317
00:54:19.210 --> 00:54:22.966
your way through these issues?

1318
00:54:24.620 --> 00:54:25.584
- [Elizabeth] Do you want me to respond?

1319
00:54:25.584 --> 00:54:27.082
- [Mike] Oh, you can pass or respond.

1320
00:54:27.082 --> 00:54:30.130
- [Elizabeth] No, I
definitely will respond.

1321
00:54:31.087 --> 00:54:32.922
In my work with Carmen

1322
00:54:32.922 --> 00:54:34.628
and with any immigrant,

1323
00:54:34.628 --> 00:54:35.801
but I will focus on Carmen,

1324
00:54:35.801 --> 00:54:37.867
what I would suggest is

1325
00:54:37.867 --> 00:54:39.203
listening to her story.

1326
00:54:39.203 --> 00:54:41.339
What is it like for her
to be an adolescent,

1327
00:54:41.339 --> 00:54:42.465
young woman,

1328
00:54:42.465 --> 00:54:44.706
coming of age in an American world?

1329
00:54:44.706 --> 00:54:46.111
What does that mean to her?

1330
00:54:46.111 --> 00:54:48.572
How does she negotiate being

1331
00:54:48.572 --> 00:54:50.313
both a Latina

1332
00:54:50.313 --> 00:54:52.949
and an American?

1333
00:54:52.949 --> 00:54:54.052
And also,

1334
00:54:54.052 --> 00:54:55.015
as part of,

1335
00:54:55.015 --> 00:54:56.176
because she was 14,

1336
00:54:56.176 --> 00:54:58.986
very much the work focused on

1337
00:54:58.986 --> 00:55:01.749
including her mother as part of the,

1338
00:55:01.749 --> 00:55:03.456
as part of the relationship,

1339
00:55:03.456 --> 00:55:04.257
as part of the work

1340
00:55:04.257 --> 00:55:06.521
because she was not gonna
separate any time soon.

1341
00:55:06.521 --> 00:55:09.226
She was going to be
living with her mother.

1342
00:55:09.226 --> 00:55:10.700
And my work with the mother focused on

1343
00:55:10.700 --> 00:55:12.303
understanding what it was like for her

1344
00:55:12.303 --> 00:55:16.471
to be undocumented in the United States.

1345
00:55:16.471 --> 00:55:18.340
What is the process like for her?

1346
00:55:18.340 --> 00:55:19.930
How does she trust people?

1347
00:55:19.930 --> 00:55:22.810
How does she, to some degree,

1348
00:55:22.810 --> 00:55:26.478
begin to let her daughter
go, to some degree,

1349
00:55:26.478 --> 00:55:28.719
but yet at the same time not be so fearful

1350
00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:30.948
that something is going to happen,

1351
00:55:30.948 --> 00:55:33.050
so my work with,

1352
00:55:33.050 --> 00:55:34.617
what I would caution people is

1353
00:55:34.617 --> 00:55:36.788
to not make assumptions just because

1354
00:55:36.788 --> 00:55:38.750
you speak Spanish,

1355
00:55:38.750 --> 00:55:40.863
that you have a relationship

1356
00:55:40.863 --> 00:55:42.663
or can develop a relationship right away.

1357
00:55:42.663 --> 00:55:44.892
It takes more than just
knowing the language,

1358
00:55:44.892 --> 00:55:46.761
just like in any language,

1359
00:55:46.761 --> 00:55:47.400
so,

1360
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:50.250
that's what I would say.

1361
00:55:53.565 --> 00:55:54.842
- And again, I wouldn't
take it personally.

1362
00:55:54.842 --> 00:55:56.374
You can pass or respond.

1363
00:55:56.374 --> 00:55:59.277
- [Arden] I can answer that.

1364
00:55:59.277 --> 00:56:01.146
Well, I mean, a few things.

1365
00:56:01.146 --> 00:56:03.317
Number one, I think
that the shocking thing

1366
00:56:03.317 --> 00:56:06.649
might be is that when I
did file this complaint,

1367
00:56:06.649 --> 00:56:08.216
people didn't think it was,

1368
00:56:08.216 --> 00:56:09.087
I got a lot of pushback.

1369
00:56:09.087 --> 00:56:13.429
Nobody thought that it had
anything to do with race.

1370
00:56:13.429 --> 00:56:14.962
And so, it,

1371
00:56:14.962 --> 00:56:18.198
what I built it up and sort
of gave you my process,

1372
00:56:18.198 --> 00:56:20.497
also that I was so angry
about this and everything,

1373
00:56:20.497 --> 00:56:21.495
but quite honestly,

1374
00:56:21.495 --> 00:56:23.399
I,

1375
00:56:23.399 --> 00:56:25.466
plenty of people saw
what I saw in that chart,

1376
00:56:25.466 --> 00:56:27.173
and nobody else said anything,

1377
00:56:27.173 --> 00:56:28.775
and on one else filed a complaint,

1378
00:56:28.775 --> 00:56:32.211
so, I do think that's one piece of it,

1379
00:56:32.211 --> 00:56:33.674
and an unfortunate piece.

1380
00:56:33.674 --> 00:56:36.612
But the thing is that, as I
started asking this question

1381
00:56:36.612 --> 00:56:37.889
to everyone,

1382
00:56:37.889 --> 00:56:39.479
especially,

1383
00:56:39.479 --> 00:56:41.383
I got a lot of interesting responses,

1384
00:56:41.383 --> 00:56:42.858
and it's changed the way I did the work,

1385
00:56:42.858 --> 00:56:44.460
but one I think was the
most compelling to me

1386
00:56:44.460 --> 00:56:45.923
was when I asked

1387
00:56:45.923 --> 00:56:47.258
this question.

1388
00:56:47.258 --> 00:56:49.464
I'd gone in to see a family and

1389
00:56:49.464 --> 00:56:50.799
they were having to
make some hard decisions

1390
00:56:50.799 --> 00:56:52.935
and the doctors kept going
and speaking to the patient,

1391
00:56:52.935 --> 00:56:55.931
and we believe a lot in patient autonomy

1392
00:56:55.931 --> 00:56:56.674
at the hospital,

1393
00:56:56.674 --> 00:56:57.974
as well as you should,

1394
00:56:57.974 --> 00:56:59.402
and so we asked them a lot of questions,

1395
00:56:59.402 --> 00:57:02.746
and so we asked this
question to the family,

1396
00:57:02.746 --> 00:57:05.683
and this family was

1397
00:57:05.683 --> 00:57:09.085
visually, they were white.

1398
00:57:09.085 --> 00:57:10.315
You would assume they were white,

1399
00:57:10.315 --> 00:57:12.347
and as I started to like go
in there to ask this question,

1400
00:57:12.347 --> 00:57:14.658
I was thinking, like, I've gotta,

1401
00:57:14.658 --> 00:57:15.923
I'm always asking this question,

1402
00:57:15.923 --> 00:57:17.154
and am I gonna get anything?

1403
00:57:17.154 --> 00:57:18.953
I sort of was in the end of the day,

1404
00:57:18.953 --> 00:57:20.056
and I asked, you know,

1405
00:57:20.056 --> 00:57:21.623
is there anything that I need to know,

1406
00:57:21.623 --> 00:57:23.760
and the daughter actually
pulled me out of the room

1407
00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:25.234
and she said, "I'm really
happy you said that.

1408
00:57:25.234 --> 00:57:26.964
"No one has asked us here about this,

1409
00:57:26.964 --> 00:57:27.963
"but to tell you the truth,"

1410
00:57:27.963 --> 00:57:29.298
and this is the language she used.

1411
00:57:29.298 --> 00:57:32.966
She said, "My mother
was a mail order bride

1412
00:57:32.966 --> 00:57:34.870
"from Eastern Europe

1413
00:57:34.870 --> 00:57:37.309
"and my father's taken
care of her whole life,

1414
00:57:37.309 --> 00:57:39.410
"and after he died, she started too,

1415
00:57:39.410 --> 00:57:42.278
"and all these doctors are
coming in and asking questions

1416
00:57:42.278 --> 00:57:44.518
"to her and trying to ask
her to make decisions,

1417
00:57:44.518 --> 00:57:48.152
"and she's never made a
decision in her life."

1418
00:57:48.152 --> 00:57:49.255
And it,

1419
00:57:49.255 --> 00:57:51.229
and, you know, that shifted everything,

1420
00:57:51.229 --> 00:57:52.843
and when you could explain that

1421
00:57:52.843 --> 00:57:54.851
and explained about
decisions they were making,

1422
00:57:54.851 --> 00:57:55.931
who was making them,

1423
00:57:55.931 --> 00:57:58.195
and the view of this
patient was significant,

1424
00:57:58.195 --> 00:57:59.669
and I think, to me, that was very,

1425
00:57:59.669 --> 00:58:01.272
that was very telling to me,

1426
00:58:01.272 --> 00:58:03.164
because,

1427
00:58:03.164 --> 00:58:05.858
I didn't expect that and no one had asked,

1428
00:58:05.858 --> 00:58:09.468
and so I think there are
times that are surprising,

1429
00:58:09.468 --> 00:58:12.923
when you bring it into the room.

1430
00:58:18.420 --> 00:58:22.425
- So, there wasn't a whole lot of

1431
00:58:22.425 --> 00:58:26.256
supervision support.

1432
00:58:26.256 --> 00:58:28.253
Or institutional support,

1433
00:58:28.253 --> 00:58:32.932
other than, "yeah, hmm,

1434
00:58:32.932 --> 00:58:34.163
"sounds really...

1435
00:58:34.163 --> 00:58:35.370
"I couldn't imagine that, wow.

1436
00:58:35.370 --> 00:58:39.022
"That sounds really hard."

1437
00:58:39.968 --> 00:58:42.441
You know, that was excellent.

1438
00:58:42.441 --> 00:58:46.533
And, so my,

1439
00:58:46.678 --> 00:58:49.616
you know, so in general,

1440
00:58:49.616 --> 00:58:50.788
all right without getting woooo

1441
00:58:50.788 --> 00:58:51.485
way too far out there,

1442
00:58:51.485 --> 00:58:52.553
so, it's really,

1443
00:58:52.553 --> 00:58:57.255
for me it's really been
important for me to find

1444
00:58:57.255 --> 00:59:00.564
my people

1445
00:59:00.564 --> 00:59:03.826
in broad arenas.

1446
00:59:03.826 --> 00:59:04.767
You know, if you look at,

1447
00:59:04.767 --> 00:59:05.498
I think in my bio,

1448
00:59:05.498 --> 00:59:06.984
you know, I've done lots of things

1449
00:59:06.984 --> 00:59:09.631
and in many of those things,
I've been kind of the one,

1450
00:59:09.631 --> 00:59:11.036
I've been an outsider in that,

1451
00:59:11.036 --> 00:59:13.103
you know, whether,

1452
00:59:13.103 --> 00:59:16.539
being on the varsity basketball
team at a very small,

1453
00:59:16.539 --> 00:59:20.777
predominantly white liberal
arts college in Vermont,

1454
00:59:20.777 --> 00:59:23.412
having dreds,

1455
00:59:23.412 --> 00:59:25.456
dancing, being a radio DJ,

1456
00:59:25.456 --> 00:59:28.045
and doing kind of these other things,

1457
00:59:28.045 --> 00:59:30.158
in these different spheres,

1458
00:59:30.158 --> 00:59:31.655
so kind of being on the outside

1459
00:59:31.655 --> 00:59:34.059
and also having a class analysis

1460
00:59:34.059 --> 00:59:37.065
and a critique of systems
at a very young age,

1461
00:59:37.065 --> 00:59:40.200
due to my upbringing,

1462
00:59:40.200 --> 00:59:42.662
knowing that, especially
institutionally there's not

1463
00:59:42.662 --> 00:59:44.299
necessarily going to be that support.

1464
00:59:44.299 --> 00:59:48.072
So it was really around
my community of people,

1465
00:59:48.072 --> 00:59:51.206
not necessarily connected
to my clinical work,

1466
00:59:51.206 --> 00:59:54.109
or readings,

1467
00:59:54.109 --> 00:59:56.710
knowing that there are
people in the world,

1468
00:59:56.710 --> 00:59:58.776
here, being one of them,

1469
00:59:58.776 --> 01:00:01.272
where there is that strength
and there is that framework,

1470
01:00:01.272 --> 01:00:02.758
and that understanding,

1471
01:00:02.758 --> 01:00:07.478
so, and that paired with my own

1472
01:00:08.656 --> 01:00:10.131
spiritual work,

1473
01:00:10.131 --> 01:00:12.197
and the work that I've done
in terms of my identity.

1474
01:00:12.197 --> 01:00:14.705
That became a much
stronger foundation for me,

1475
01:00:14.705 --> 01:00:18.002
than, "Oh my god, help me figure this out,

1476
01:00:18.002 --> 01:00:18.966
"and what do I do with this?"

1477
01:00:18.966 --> 01:00:20.371
to a supervisor

1478
01:00:20.371 --> 01:00:23.006
and to a system that really

1479
01:00:23.006 --> 01:00:25.676
couldn't, didn't have the skills

1480
01:00:25.676 --> 01:00:28.365
to manage that and to figure that out.

1481
01:00:30.344 --> 01:00:31.621
- [Mike] Okay, so we have about 30 minutes

1482
01:00:31.621 --> 01:00:34.471
for courageous questions.

1483
01:00:34.558 --> 01:00:36.520
- [Annemarie] So there
is a stand right there

1484
01:00:36.520 --> 01:00:37.821
that somebody is already going to,

1485
01:00:37.821 --> 01:00:39.330
and I'm going to wander
over here if you want to

1486
01:00:39.330 --> 01:00:41.948
put your hand up.

1487
01:00:48.629 --> 01:00:50.104
- [Audience Member] Hi,
so, the thing that I wanted

1488
01:00:50.104 --> 01:00:50.905
to share that I noticed,

1489
01:00:50.905 --> 01:00:53.331
Arden when you shared your case,

1490
01:00:53.331 --> 01:00:55.642
I also worked a lot in a hospital,

1491
01:00:55.642 --> 01:00:57.766
and I remember feeling very
intimidated by the system

1492
01:00:57.766 --> 01:00:59.183
and by a lot of the power differentials,

1493
01:00:59.183 --> 01:01:00.936
like with doctors and medical staff,

1494
01:01:00.936 --> 01:01:03.142
and I just really admire
that you took that risk

1495
01:01:03.142 --> 01:01:06.416
to be bold and to confront
what is a very intimidating

1496
01:01:06.416 --> 01:01:07.751
system, in my experience,

1497
01:01:07.751 --> 01:01:10.328
so I thought that was really amazing.

1498
01:01:10.328 --> 01:01:11.524
So I'm kind of curious.

1499
01:01:11.524 --> 01:01:13.289
I know we talk a lot about
in our practice classes

1500
01:01:13.289 --> 01:01:13.997
and other classes about,

1501
01:01:13.997 --> 01:01:17.933
you know, like encountering
racism in clients

1502
01:01:17.933 --> 01:01:19.558
and there's this tension
between, you know,

1503
01:01:19.558 --> 01:01:21.103
wanting to provide an
effective intervention

1504
01:01:21.103 --> 01:01:24.736
but also sometimes feeling a
need to confront those views

1505
01:01:24.736 --> 01:01:26.002
and you spoke a lot to that,

1506
01:01:26.002 --> 01:01:28.336
and I'm just wondering if you
can talk a little bit more

1507
01:01:28.336 --> 01:01:28.939
about,

1508
01:01:28.939 --> 01:01:31.540
'cause it sounds like in that just,

1509
01:01:31.540 --> 01:01:33.885
in that instance, that
it was really helpful,

1510
01:01:33.885 --> 01:01:35.511
you know, to kind of sit and to wait,

1511
01:01:35.511 --> 01:01:37.380
to sit with the feelings, but,

1512
01:01:37.380 --> 01:01:39.284
was there a lot of tension there for you?

1513
01:01:39.284 --> 01:01:40.573
Can you elaborate a little more on that,

1514
01:01:40.573 --> 01:01:42.326
or, like, would it have been,

1515
01:01:42.326 --> 01:01:43.382
do you feel like if it,

1516
01:01:43.382 --> 01:01:44.787
if the therapy had continued,

1517
01:01:44.787 --> 01:01:46.621
would you have addressed
that maybe later on,

1518
01:01:46.621 --> 01:01:47.759
those views?

1519
01:01:47.759 --> 01:01:49.327
Like, I'm just kind of curious
to know a little bit more

1520
01:01:49.327 --> 01:01:51.358
about that.

1521
01:01:51.358 --> 01:01:56.020
- [Enroue] It was pretty challenging.

1522
01:01:57.697 --> 01:01:58.568
Based on,

1523
01:01:58.568 --> 01:02:01.076
I mean based on who I am,

1524
01:02:01.076 --> 01:02:03.572
that, at that particular instance,

1525
01:02:03.572 --> 01:02:06.370
it was, you know, I guess
more directed towards me

1526
01:02:06.370 --> 01:02:08.379
and how I identify,

1527
01:02:08.379 --> 01:02:11.119
was certainly more triggering,

1528
01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:14.741
but it didn't kind of all of
a sudden make it important.

1529
01:02:14.741 --> 01:02:17.748
It was mainly, how do I manage this,

1530
01:02:17.748 --> 01:02:20.128
my own disregulation,

1531
01:02:20.128 --> 01:02:23.495
and maintaining what my
professional role is,

1532
01:02:23.495 --> 01:02:25.666
and being a human being,

1533
01:02:25.666 --> 01:02:28.940
so, we actually,

1534
01:02:28.940 --> 01:02:31.436
treatment continued and his,

1535
01:02:31.436 --> 01:02:32.237
you know, kind of in one way,

1536
01:02:32.237 --> 01:02:34.803
kind of his level of risk went
down and his insight went up

1537
01:02:34.803 --> 01:02:36.045
and ability to manage his feelings,

1538
01:02:36.045 --> 01:02:37.148
that all improved,

1539
01:02:37.148 --> 01:02:38.808
like all those good things happened,

1540
01:02:38.808 --> 01:02:43.313
and some of that happened, in,

1541
01:02:43.313 --> 01:02:45.449
there's a couple sessions
where we actually went for

1542
01:02:45.449 --> 01:02:47.318
a walk, and in that,

1543
01:02:47.318 --> 01:02:50.093
certain things happened and
he had that same response,

1544
01:02:50.093 --> 01:02:52.822
so this incident kind
of became a cornerstone

1545
01:02:52.822 --> 01:02:54.633
that we could keep referring to,

1546
01:02:54.633 --> 01:02:55.794
and that I could keep saying,

1547
01:02:55.794 --> 01:02:59.230
"So here's another situation where

1548
01:02:59.230 --> 01:03:01.366
"this happened, you got scared,

1549
01:03:01.366 --> 01:03:03.967
"or worried about something
or felt some kind of danger,

1550
01:03:03.967 --> 01:03:05.801
"and then you immediately turned it around

1551
01:03:05.801 --> 01:03:07.543
"and started attacking,"

1552
01:03:07.543 --> 01:03:09.714
and so that became the work.

1553
01:03:09.714 --> 01:03:12.048
Now, the challenge is
that I would have loved

1554
01:03:12.048 --> 01:03:13.905
to have had him, you know,

1555
01:03:13.905 --> 01:03:15.914
to have this whole revelatory, you know,

1556
01:03:15.914 --> 01:03:16.982
transcendent,

1557
01:03:16.982 --> 01:03:18.654
oh, he's like working for liberation,

1558
01:03:18.654 --> 01:03:22.984
for all people now, and like, you know,

1559
01:03:22.984 --> 01:03:26.258
maybe so, I don't know,

1560
01:03:26.258 --> 01:03:27.698
doubtful.

1561
01:03:27.698 --> 01:03:30.333
And part of it was based on what his,

1562
01:03:30.333 --> 01:03:31.761
you know, the setting that he's in,

1563
01:03:31.761 --> 01:03:35.837
so he returns to this is how the world is,

1564
01:03:35.837 --> 01:03:37.903
because the people around him
didn't have that awareness

1565
01:03:37.903 --> 01:03:40.376
and actually, I didn't
realize how much they didn't

1566
01:03:40.376 --> 01:03:43.070
until I got feedback from someone who had

1567
01:03:43.070 --> 01:03:44.741
done some of the initial
intake stuff and said,

1568
01:03:44.741 --> 01:03:45.717
"Oh yeah, they have,

1569
01:03:45.717 --> 01:03:47.644
"you know, the family
kind of feels this way,"

1570
01:03:47.644 --> 01:03:51.719
but that had never come
out in my work with him.

1571
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:54.517
The other piece is that

1572
01:03:54.517 --> 01:03:56.955
it became less important to then say,

1573
01:03:56.955 --> 01:03:58.789
oh I have to address
these specific things,

1574
01:03:58.789 --> 01:04:01.158
about how you're targeting
these people or not,

1575
01:04:01.158 --> 01:04:02.853
it's really like how you're in the world,

1576
01:04:02.853 --> 01:04:05.663
and if I could help him to
not have that reactivity,

1577
01:04:05.663 --> 01:04:09.598
then those things wouldn't really happen,

1578
01:04:09.598 --> 01:04:13.105
to an extent that it was dangerous.

1579
01:04:13.105 --> 01:04:15.206
And that was part of,

1580
01:04:15.206 --> 01:04:17.505
that was part of the goal, right?

1581
01:04:17.505 --> 01:04:18.712
All the stuff up here around,

1582
01:04:18.712 --> 01:04:20.140
oh that'd be great and he's in the world

1583
01:04:20.140 --> 01:04:23.577
and confronting and
challenging, shhh, great!

1584
01:04:23.577 --> 01:04:26.584
Not really where he was at.

1585
01:04:26.584 --> 01:04:29.022
Really would have required, you know,

1586
01:04:29.022 --> 01:04:31.460
really extensive, kind of
different piece of work,

1587
01:04:31.460 --> 01:04:35.930
and some of the challenges
actually had to do with,

1588
01:04:35.930 --> 01:04:39.064
so he was on probation

1589
01:04:39.064 --> 01:04:40.597
and once probation ends,

1590
01:04:40.597 --> 01:04:43.070
there's less, you know, pull,

1591
01:04:43.070 --> 01:04:46.936
and influence that they have
for him to stay in treatment,

1592
01:04:46.936 --> 01:04:48.039
even though his,

1593
01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:50.582
his mom and stepfather kept him treatment,

1594
01:04:50.582 --> 01:04:52.439
after that, because they
felt that he had a good

1595
01:04:52.439 --> 01:04:54.982
relationship and was making
some significant progress,

1596
01:04:54.982 --> 01:04:56.108
so, you know,

1597
01:04:56.108 --> 01:05:00.329
this is how we meet
people where they're at.

1598
01:05:00.787 --> 01:05:02.308
I would have loved to seen this,

1599
01:05:02.308 --> 01:05:03.527
and like, woo, this is where it is,

1600
01:05:03.527 --> 01:05:06.464
and like, he wants to go be,

1601
01:05:06.464 --> 01:05:08.159
you know, a sniper for the military,

1602
01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:10.667
and, okay, you know,

1603
01:05:10.667 --> 01:05:11.897
and you want to have these relationships,

1604
01:05:11.897 --> 01:05:13.093
so let's help you have these relationships

1605
01:05:13.093 --> 01:05:15.833
and be in the world in a good way, and,

1606
01:05:15.833 --> 01:05:16.832
that's the work I can do,

1607
01:05:16.832 --> 01:05:18.910
like, that's my piece.

1608
01:05:18.910 --> 01:05:20.855
To get from here to here.

1609
01:05:28.778 --> 01:05:29.939
- [Audience Member Two] First
I would like to thank you all

1610
01:05:29.939 --> 01:05:31.774
for coming and being so willing to

1611
01:05:31.774 --> 01:05:34.618
share your personal
clinical stories with us.

1612
01:05:34.618 --> 01:05:38.763
My reflection is particularly
for Arden, I suppose.

1613
01:05:38.763 --> 01:05:40.551
I really appreciated that you were

1614
01:05:40.551 --> 01:05:42.896
telling us how making that complaint

1615
01:05:42.896 --> 01:05:45.323
really brought talking
about race into the room

1616
01:05:45.323 --> 01:05:47.366
with her, but I guess,

1617
01:05:47.366 --> 01:05:48.736
what I'd like to ask is,

1618
01:05:48.736 --> 01:05:50.234
what do you do in situations,

1619
01:05:50.234 --> 01:05:52.335
it sounds like you work a
lot in a very white-washed

1620
01:05:52.335 --> 01:05:53.705
environment, you said,

1621
01:05:53.705 --> 01:05:56.700
so I'm wondering what you
do in intraracial situations

1622
01:05:56.700 --> 01:05:58.082
where it's you as the white clinician

1623
01:05:58.082 --> 01:06:00.450
and a white client, and,

1624
01:06:00.450 --> 01:06:01.646
do you address race directly?

1625
01:06:01.646 --> 01:06:03.306
It does sound like, in
what you just responded

1626
01:06:03.306 --> 01:06:05.303
to Doctor Funk, it does
sound like you said

1627
01:06:05.303 --> 01:06:07.753
you still continue to
ask the same questions

1628
01:06:07.753 --> 01:06:08.519
of everyone,

1629
01:06:08.519 --> 01:06:10.853
but I am also wondering how
do you work with your own

1630
01:06:10.853 --> 01:06:14.667
racial identify in an
intraracial relationship.

1631
01:06:17.761 --> 01:06:19.827
- [Arden] That's a good question.

1632
01:06:19.827 --> 01:06:21.232
Wow.

1633
01:06:21.232 --> 01:06:22.405
I do try to bring it up.

1634
01:06:22.405 --> 01:06:24.901
Obviously after that one
situation I told you guys about,

1635
01:06:24.901 --> 01:06:26.410
I do try to bring it up.

1636
01:06:26.410 --> 01:06:30.067
I will say that when I,

1637
01:06:30.067 --> 01:06:32.773
I tend to try to dig down
in just a little bit deeper,

1638
01:06:32.773 --> 01:06:36.720
because when people are
making decisions around,

1639
01:06:36.720 --> 01:06:40.818
around things like code status,

1640
01:06:40.818 --> 01:06:42.153
where they want to be,

1641
01:06:42.153 --> 01:06:45.056
how they want to deal with their family,

1642
01:06:45.056 --> 01:06:46.797
there are a lot of different levels,

1643
01:06:46.797 --> 01:06:49.828
and I really feel like, that,

1644
01:06:49.828 --> 01:06:51.627
culture and your cultural history

1645
01:06:51.627 --> 01:06:54.785
and what it is plays into
that in a lot of ways,

1646
01:06:54.785 --> 01:06:57.304
and so I sort of have to,

1647
01:06:57.304 --> 01:06:58.709
I think tease is out in a different way.

1648
01:06:58.709 --> 01:07:00.207
Sometimes it's around,

1649
01:07:00.207 --> 01:07:01.066
sort of,

1650
01:07:01.066 --> 01:07:02.274
I mean sometimes it's around class,

1651
01:07:02.274 --> 01:07:06.267
sometimes it's around
spirituality or religion

1652
01:07:06.267 --> 01:07:08.044
or trauma history.

1653
01:07:08.044 --> 01:07:09.309
I've had a lot of situations like that,

1654
01:07:09.309 --> 01:07:12.444
but I think that when I'm working with

1655
01:07:12.444 --> 01:07:13.547
another white-identified client,

1656
01:07:13.547 --> 01:07:16.449
I think that there are times
that I do actually reflect

1657
01:07:16.449 --> 01:07:19.688
about the privilege of the
institution even within that,

1658
01:07:19.688 --> 01:07:22.962
because, it opens up a
conversation for them

1659
01:07:22.962 --> 01:07:24.727
about how they're different,

1660
01:07:24.727 --> 01:07:27.734
and how they, how they
view things differently,

1661
01:07:27.734 --> 01:07:31.757
and I think that for me,

1662
01:07:32.007 --> 01:07:32.703
I wish I,

1663
01:07:32.703 --> 01:07:34.677
I'll think more and see if I
can think of another example,

1664
01:07:34.677 --> 01:07:36.941
but I just feel like that,

1665
01:07:36.941 --> 01:07:38.682
if you bring it up no matter what it is,

1666
01:07:38.682 --> 01:07:40.343
if they have anything that's different,

1667
01:07:40.343 --> 01:07:43.315
then they're able to open
it up in a different way.

1668
01:07:43.315 --> 01:07:45.097
I'm not sure if that's
answering it really.

1669
01:07:45.097 --> 01:07:46.784
- [Elizabeth] I think you
give them permission to talk

1670
01:07:46.784 --> 01:07:48.931
about it when you bring it up.

1671
01:07:52.911 --> 01:07:54.824
- [Audience Member Three]
Hi, thank you for the cases.

1672
01:07:54.824 --> 01:07:55.997
They were wonderful.

1673
01:07:55.997 --> 01:07:57.727
I have a question for Enroue,

1674
01:07:57.727 --> 01:07:58.864
regarding the case of Amir,

1675
01:07:58.864 --> 01:08:01.500
and you write in the case
that he was aware of your

1676
01:08:01.500 --> 01:08:03.532
African heritage,

1677
01:08:03.532 --> 01:08:06.573
prior to making these comments about

1678
01:08:06.573 --> 01:08:07.340
black people,

1679
01:08:07.340 --> 01:08:08.837
and I'm wondering if there was anything,

1680
01:08:08.837 --> 01:08:12.042
if he felt at the point
in which he brought up

1681
01:08:12.042 --> 01:08:14.410
those comments in his work with you,

1682
01:08:14.410 --> 01:08:19.054
he felt safe enough to

1683
01:08:19.054 --> 01:08:22.015
try and test your limits
and test your relationship

1684
01:08:22.015 --> 01:08:23.489
and if it was part of something

1685
01:08:23.489 --> 01:08:24.847
that was being enacted,

1686
01:08:24.847 --> 01:08:27.297
if you wanted to comment on that.

1687
01:08:27.297 --> 01:08:29.062
- [Enroue] I would say yes.

1688
01:08:29.062 --> 01:08:31.663
(audience laughs)

1689
01:08:31.663 --> 01:08:33.265
You know, that's the,

1690
01:08:33.265 --> 01:08:35.296
you kind of talk about
these things over here

1691
01:08:35.296 --> 01:08:37.328
and create this safe
space, and that's good,

1692
01:08:37.328 --> 01:08:38.896
and here's, oh yes, I'm here,

1693
01:08:38.896 --> 01:08:40.207
you're good.

1694
01:08:40.207 --> 01:08:41.844
You don't have to prove yourself.

1695
01:08:41.844 --> 01:08:42.843
Brings up these other little things.

1696
01:08:42.843 --> 01:08:44.062
Oh, yes, that's okay,

1697
01:08:44.062 --> 01:08:45.873
and then, oh!

1698
01:08:45.873 --> 01:08:46.883
Now, I don't think he was like,

1699
01:08:46.883 --> 01:08:48.985
"Oh, here's this plan I'm gonna do,

1700
01:08:48.985 --> 01:08:50.540
"and when he's all calm and happy,

1701
01:08:50.540 --> 01:08:53.652
"then I'll spring this," but,

1702
01:08:53.652 --> 01:08:57.088
that was certainly kind
of how it worked out.

1703
01:08:57.088 --> 01:08:59.619
One thing I wanted to add is that,

1704
01:08:59.619 --> 01:09:04.554
so I do bring up kind of issues of

1705
01:09:04.554 --> 01:09:06.504
liberation with clients

1706
01:09:06.504 --> 01:09:07.700
and work with them around things,

1707
01:09:07.700 --> 01:09:08.954
so, it's not only like,

1708
01:09:08.954 --> 01:09:10.393
oh, well, they're not
gonna reach this place,

1709
01:09:10.393 --> 01:09:12.936
we kind of don't do it
and we kind of work on

1710
01:09:12.936 --> 01:09:14.805
how they can be good people in the world,

1711
01:09:14.805 --> 01:09:18.242
but it's,

1712
01:09:18.242 --> 01:09:21.376
it's different than having
a conversation with somebody

1713
01:09:21.376 --> 01:09:24.917
around how privilege and oppression

1714
01:09:24.917 --> 01:09:26.287
is enacted upon us,

1715
01:09:26.287 --> 01:09:28.215
and how we enact those things,

1716
01:09:28.215 --> 01:09:29.352
so it's things that get brought up,

1717
01:09:29.352 --> 01:09:30.595
whether it's, you know,

1718
01:09:30.595 --> 01:09:35.459
what is the impact of poverty
on someone's depression,

1719
01:09:35.459 --> 01:09:38.130
or the impact of sexism when
you're looking at domestic

1720
01:09:38.130 --> 01:09:39.534
violence,

1721
01:09:39.534 --> 01:09:43.238
so those things get kind
of stated and named,

1722
01:09:43.238 --> 01:09:44.840
so that, yes, these are all these forces,

1723
01:09:44.840 --> 01:09:46.767
some of them, you know,
you get to kind of manage

1724
01:09:46.767 --> 01:09:48.312
and some of them are like,
whoa, this is a big thing

1725
01:09:48.312 --> 01:09:50.471
to really work on,

1726
01:09:50.471 --> 01:09:52.340
but in terms of, you know,

1727
01:09:52.340 --> 01:09:53.745
we look at, like, treatment plan

1728
01:09:53.745 --> 01:09:56.113
and interventions and knowing
the reality of how long

1729
01:09:56.113 --> 01:09:57.518
someone's gonna be there,

1730
01:09:57.518 --> 01:09:59.956
you know, you can have
these grand ideas about

1731
01:09:59.956 --> 01:10:02.360
what success is or what it looks like

1732
01:10:02.360 --> 01:10:03.894
and it's where people
are at and what they're,

1733
01:10:03.894 --> 01:10:06.864
what they want, you know.

1734
01:10:06.864 --> 01:10:09.223
We don't get to decide all those things.

1735
01:10:09.223 --> 01:10:12.445
We can think about it, but...

1736
01:10:14.192 --> 01:10:17.856
There's a question up here also.

1737
01:10:21.774 --> 01:10:24.038
- [Audience Member Four] Yes, thank you.

1738
01:10:24.038 --> 01:10:26.777
This is specifically to
Doctor Rodriguez-Keyes.

1739
01:10:26.777 --> 01:10:29.274
You made a mention about

1740
01:10:29.274 --> 01:10:30.853
when you were in your graduate program

1741
01:10:30.853 --> 01:10:33.825
about feeling

1742
01:10:33.825 --> 01:10:35.822
just as if you belonged there

1743
01:10:35.822 --> 01:10:36.774
and you started to question yourself

1744
01:10:36.774 --> 01:10:40.721
and basically your,

1745
01:10:40.721 --> 01:10:43.658
if you're good enough
to be in that program.

1746
01:10:43.658 --> 01:10:44.866
How did you reconcile with that,

1747
01:10:44.866 --> 01:10:49.463
and how did you continue
to reconcile with that?

1748
01:10:49.463 --> 01:10:50.961
- [Elizabeth] It's a
really great question.

1749
01:10:50.961 --> 01:10:53.167
I think, for me, it's been a question

1750
01:10:53.167 --> 01:10:54.665
that I've asked myself,

1751
01:10:54.665 --> 01:10:58.241
I think through,

1752
01:10:58.241 --> 01:11:01.944
I would say, a lot of,

1753
01:11:01.944 --> 01:11:04.185
what's the word I'm looking for?

1754
01:11:04.185 --> 01:11:05.717
Through various stages in my life

1755
01:11:05.717 --> 01:11:06.948
where I start to,

1756
01:11:06.948 --> 01:11:10.454
when I meet a goal

1757
01:11:10.454 --> 01:11:12.022
or have a new accomplishment,

1758
01:11:12.022 --> 01:11:15.818
the way I reconcile with
being as (inaudible)

1759
01:11:15.818 --> 01:11:17.861
It took me awhile to feel like

1760
01:11:17.861 --> 01:11:18.964
I belong here,

1761
01:11:18.964 --> 01:11:19.893
like, oh my god,

1762
01:11:19.893 --> 01:11:21.565
I'm as good as every other student

1763
01:11:21.565 --> 01:11:25.217
who was in my class.

1764
01:11:25.872 --> 01:11:28.426
I had support around that

1765
01:11:28.426 --> 01:11:29.576
so I wasn't alone.

1766
01:11:29.576 --> 01:11:30.737
I had a good cohort

1767
01:11:30.737 --> 01:11:33.384
so we really bonded well together,

1768
01:11:33.384 --> 01:11:36.112
and that really helped me to feel like,

1769
01:11:36.112 --> 01:11:39.618
oh my god, I can bring
something to this group

1770
01:11:39.618 --> 01:11:42.916
and I have some unique abilities,

1771
01:11:42.916 --> 01:11:45.621
and it's been a process for me,

1772
01:11:45.621 --> 01:11:47.223
and I think everything I do,

1773
01:11:47.223 --> 01:11:49.557
when I was hired as a professor,

1774
01:11:49.557 --> 01:11:51.031
I was like, "Awesome!

1775
01:11:51.031 --> 01:11:52.064
"That's great!

1776
01:11:52.064 --> 01:11:53.063
"Oh my god."

1777
01:11:56.683 --> 01:11:58.229
You know?

1778
01:11:58.229 --> 01:11:59.634
So it is and I think for me,

1779
01:11:59.634 --> 01:12:03.605
it takes me awhile to
really fall into that

1780
01:12:03.605 --> 01:12:05.903
position, into that place.

1781
01:12:05.903 --> 01:12:07.076
I don't move fast.

1782
01:12:07.076 --> 01:12:09.944
I stay with the anxiety.

1783
01:12:09.944 --> 01:12:12.347
I don't run from it.

1784
01:12:12.347 --> 01:12:13.520
I explore it.

1785
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:15.923
I grow from it and it grounds me,

1786
01:12:15.923 --> 01:12:20.021
so, that's how I've been
able to get through it.

1787
01:12:20.021 --> 01:12:23.493
Every process for me has been

1788
01:12:23.493 --> 01:12:25.095
not easy.

1789
01:12:25.095 --> 01:12:26.000
It's been difficult.

1790
01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:29.936
I've never had models that I could say,

1791
01:12:29.936 --> 01:12:32.606
oh, when I grow up, I
want to be just like her,

1792
01:12:32.606 --> 01:12:35.137
so, it's been a process for me

1793
01:12:35.137 --> 01:12:38.040
to look to other people to say,

1794
01:12:38.040 --> 01:12:40.397
wow, they have some really good qualities.

1795
01:12:40.397 --> 01:12:41.709
I can get there,

1796
01:12:41.709 --> 01:12:42.649
but I do get there,

1797
01:12:42.649 --> 01:12:44.379
and I'm okay.

1798
01:12:44.379 --> 01:12:45.412
So, I say,

1799
01:12:45.412 --> 01:12:48.350
if you feel that way, just
really sit with the anxiety.

1800
01:12:48.350 --> 01:12:49.917
It's good.

1801
01:12:49.917 --> 01:12:52.442
Because it makes you strong.

1802
01:12:59.797 --> 01:13:01.597
- [Audience Member Five] So,

1803
01:13:01.597 --> 01:13:03.733
this is for anybody on the panel.

1804
01:13:03.733 --> 01:13:06.368
A lot of you talked about reactivity,

1805
01:13:06.368 --> 01:13:08.876
countertransference or feeling isolated

1806
01:13:08.876 --> 01:13:12.475
where you worked or without supervision.

1807
01:13:12.475 --> 01:13:14.878
I was wondering how do you deal with

1808
01:13:14.878 --> 01:13:17.084
that gut reaction you get sometimes

1809
01:13:17.084 --> 01:13:18.152
when someone says something,

1810
01:13:18.152 --> 01:13:22.123
and it's either old or new or
something totally different.

1811
01:13:22.123 --> 01:13:23.655
How do you handle that moment

1812
01:13:23.655 --> 01:13:26.059
while still remaining empathically open

1813
01:13:26.059 --> 01:13:28.178
to your clients?

1814
01:13:31.121 --> 01:13:33.698
- [Arden] Well I should have
learned about that "wait"

1815
01:13:33.698 --> 01:13:36.496
that he talked about, a long time ago.

1816
01:13:36.496 --> 01:13:37.239
- [Enroue] I'll write it down for you.

1817
01:13:37.239 --> 01:13:38.841
- [Arden] He's gonna write it down for me.

1818
01:13:38.841 --> 01:13:40.142
(audience laughs)

1819
01:13:40.142 --> 01:13:41.639
As I was thinking about
the difference in the way

1820
01:13:41.639 --> 01:13:43.009
that we dealt with that case,

1821
01:13:43.009 --> 01:13:45.180
obviously you can see,

1822
01:13:45.180 --> 01:13:45.981
maybe switch,

1823
01:13:45.981 --> 01:13:48.211
maybe you should speak to that.

1824
01:13:48.211 --> 01:13:50.295
(laughs)

1825
01:14:02.990 --> 01:14:04.697
- So notice that.

1826
01:14:04.697 --> 01:14:07.065
Right?

1827
01:14:07.065 --> 01:14:10.554
Silence is okay.

1828
01:14:14.478 --> 01:14:17.003
You know the things hit us.

1829
01:14:17.003 --> 01:14:17.909
We're human beings.

1830
01:14:17.909 --> 01:14:20.150
I had a supervisor who

1831
01:14:20.150 --> 01:14:23.679
talked about,

1832
01:14:23.679 --> 01:14:26.222
she'd been in the field for 20 years,

1833
01:14:26.222 --> 01:14:28.416
actually I think more than 20 years,

1834
01:14:28.416 --> 01:14:30.424
and was a Smith alum,

1835
01:14:30.424 --> 01:14:33.629
and she spoke about
having this elephant skin,

1836
01:14:33.629 --> 01:14:34.558
this like (exhales),

1837
01:14:34.558 --> 01:14:36.264
and there are other people
who I've encountered

1838
01:14:36.264 --> 01:14:39.527
who talked about having,
you know, thick armor.

1839
01:14:39.527 --> 01:14:40.364
Okay, gotta go to work.

1840
01:14:40.364 --> 01:14:41.502
Wa-cha!

1841
01:14:41.502 --> 01:14:44.741
Get ready to withstand, to tolerate,

1842
01:14:44.741 --> 01:14:47.945
and I decided that I did not
want to live my life that way.

1843
01:14:47.945 --> 01:14:49.838
That was not the kind of
professional I wanted to be,

1844
01:14:49.838 --> 01:14:52.508
not the kind of human being I want to be,

1845
01:14:52.508 --> 01:14:54.842
so many of

1846
01:14:54.842 --> 01:14:57.988
the things I try to get is
how can I develop skills

1847
01:14:57.988 --> 01:15:00.751
to,

1848
01:15:00.751 --> 01:15:03.421
to have an open heart

1849
01:15:03.421 --> 01:15:05.685
and to be connected in that way,

1850
01:15:05.685 --> 01:15:07.624
and use the skills I have,

1851
01:15:07.624 --> 01:15:09.818
but have that as a fundamental piece,

1852
01:15:09.818 --> 01:15:10.596
and I acually,

1853
01:15:10.596 --> 01:15:13.499
one thing that really
helped me when I was,

1854
01:15:13.499 --> 01:15:16.436
I was an intern is,

1855
01:15:16.436 --> 01:15:19.408
during my first year's placement,

1856
01:15:19.408 --> 01:15:22.334
around Christmas, my grandmother died,

1857
01:15:22.334 --> 01:15:25.306
and I went to

1858
01:15:25.306 --> 01:15:26.479
be with her.

1859
01:15:26.479 --> 01:15:28.975
I was able to be with her the days before

1860
01:15:28.975 --> 01:15:30.577
and to be with her and my family

1861
01:15:30.577 --> 01:15:33.282
in her room,

1862
01:15:33.282 --> 01:15:35.453
and a lot of that was
really just being with her,

1863
01:15:35.453 --> 01:15:37.322
and there was nothing
to do other than that,

1864
01:15:37.322 --> 01:15:37.857
or I should say,

1865
01:15:37.857 --> 01:15:40.422
there was everything to do with that,

1866
01:15:40.422 --> 01:15:43.522
and it wasn't a matter
of making any of her pain

1867
01:15:43.522 --> 01:15:45.995
or discomfort, or ways that
she was not present at all

1868
01:15:45.995 --> 01:15:47.969
in the room shift,

1869
01:15:47.969 --> 01:15:49.826
or go away,

1870
01:15:49.826 --> 01:15:52.566
and she died

1871
01:15:52.566 --> 01:15:55.376
and I had the opportunity,

1872
01:15:55.376 --> 01:15:57.744
which was initially pretty terrifying,

1873
01:15:57.744 --> 01:15:59.010
but to then,

1874
01:15:59.010 --> 01:16:01.007
I said, well I have this opportunity

1875
01:16:01.007 --> 01:16:03.410
to then be with her
body after she had died

1876
01:16:03.410 --> 01:16:05.047
and to really give thanks

1877
01:16:05.047 --> 01:16:05.883
for her,

1878
01:16:05.883 --> 01:16:08.553
for the body that was her,

1879
01:16:08.553 --> 01:16:10.086
knowing that it wasn't the totality

1880
01:16:10.086 --> 01:16:12.454
but of giving thanks for that,

1881
01:16:12.454 --> 01:16:15.926
and when I returned,

1882
01:16:15.926 --> 01:16:18.631
and started seeing clients

1883
01:16:18.631 --> 01:16:21.022
in my internship, in my placement,

1884
01:16:21.022 --> 01:16:23.066
this shift happened where I didn't,

1885
01:16:23.066 --> 01:16:25.469
it wasn't about me taking things on.

1886
01:16:25.469 --> 01:16:27.907
It wasn't my burden.

1887
01:16:27.907 --> 01:16:29.939
Their pain was not my burden,

1888
01:16:29.939 --> 01:16:32.946
and I could be present
and be connected with them

1889
01:16:32.946 --> 01:16:37.253
and be this witness to that,

1890
01:16:37.253 --> 01:16:38.913
and so,

1891
01:16:38.913 --> 01:16:41.340
the continued cultivation of that quality

1892
01:16:41.340 --> 01:16:43.360
and that skill base,

1893
01:16:43.360 --> 01:16:45.589
along with, you know,

1894
01:16:45.589 --> 01:16:48.956
the skill base that we have
as clinical social workers,

1895
01:16:48.956 --> 01:16:49.560
has been,

1896
01:16:49.560 --> 01:16:52.462
that's really been the vital piece.

1897
01:16:52.462 --> 01:16:54.598
- [Elizabeth] I'd also
like to respond to that.

1898
01:16:54.598 --> 01:16:57.466
I will say, if you don't have supervision,

1899
01:16:57.466 --> 01:16:59.498
seek private supervision.

1900
01:16:59.498 --> 01:17:01.042
It is important in the beginning,

1901
01:17:01.042 --> 01:17:03.004
especially as you're
getting into the field

1902
01:17:03.004 --> 01:17:05.814
to understand the feelings
that are being evoked in you.

1903
01:17:05.814 --> 01:17:07.451
It's important to process them

1904
01:17:07.451 --> 01:17:10.434
so that as you sit with different clients,

1905
01:17:10.434 --> 01:17:13.012
what's being evoked in
you doesn't come out,

1906
01:17:13.012 --> 01:17:14.417
so I think it's really important.

1907
01:17:14.417 --> 01:17:16.414
If your agency does not offer that,

1908
01:17:16.414 --> 01:17:17.354
pay for it.

1909
01:17:17.354 --> 01:17:19.049
It's worth it, especially in the beginning

1910
01:17:19.049 --> 01:17:21.220
of your training.

1911
01:17:21.220 --> 01:17:23.159
- [Arden] And I obviously
use a lot of humor

1912
01:17:23.159 --> 01:17:24.622
in the way I deal with things,

1913
01:17:24.622 --> 01:17:26.433
but I will say this.

1914
01:17:26.433 --> 01:17:29.661
I think that having some
sort of meditation practice

1915
01:17:29.661 --> 01:17:31.402
or ability to ground yourself,

1916
01:17:31.402 --> 01:17:32.575
and know what you have to do,

1917
01:17:32.575 --> 01:17:34.107
because that,

1918
01:17:34.107 --> 01:17:36.778
I presented a case where I obviously went

1919
01:17:36.778 --> 01:17:38.275
sort of crazy in the situation,

1920
01:17:38.275 --> 01:17:41.085
but I spent a lot of time

1921
01:17:41.085 --> 01:17:42.815
being with people as they're dying,

1922
01:17:42.815 --> 01:17:44.417
and, that takes,

1923
01:17:44.417 --> 01:17:46.089
you have to hold a lot of space for that,

1924
01:17:46.089 --> 01:17:48.922
and you have to be able
to hold your energy,

1925
01:17:48.922 --> 01:17:50.791
and you have to not be able to,

1926
01:17:50.791 --> 01:17:52.021
you have to be able to have a boundary

1927
01:17:52.021 --> 01:17:53.751
to allow them to be there,

1928
01:17:53.751 --> 01:17:56.329
because I think it's when
you're able to be fully present

1929
01:17:56.329 --> 01:17:58.186
and I do have a meditation practice,

1930
01:17:58.186 --> 01:17:59.661
although you wouldn't be able to tell,

1931
01:17:59.661 --> 01:18:00.799
by the way I'm acting up here,

1932
01:18:00.799 --> 01:18:02.993
and it,

1933
01:18:02.993 --> 01:18:06.905
so I can like steal some of your stuff,

1934
01:18:06.905 --> 01:18:08.635
but,

1935
01:18:08.635 --> 01:18:10.075
I do do that,

1936
01:18:10.075 --> 01:18:12.014
and I will say that
when I walk into a room,

1937
01:18:12.014 --> 01:18:13.674
and I think there's sometimes
things that you can do,

1938
01:18:13.674 --> 01:18:15.508
little things that you can do.

1939
01:18:15.508 --> 01:18:16.646
Before I walk into every single room,

1940
01:18:16.646 --> 01:18:18.998
I stop and I take a breath,

1941
01:18:18.998 --> 01:18:23.159
and I just say a quick, like, little,

1942
01:18:23.159 --> 01:18:25.121
I'm not sure prayer is the right word,

1943
01:18:25.121 --> 01:18:26.886
but just, sort of, just,

1944
01:18:26.886 --> 01:18:27.989
let me be grounded here,

1945
01:18:27.989 --> 01:18:29.359
let me have this be about them,

1946
01:18:29.359 --> 01:18:30.427
and not be about me,

1947
01:18:30.427 --> 01:18:32.436
and I think that it is in that

1948
01:18:32.436 --> 01:18:34.827
that you're able to really hold tight.

1949
01:18:34.827 --> 01:18:36.824
I couldn't in the case I presented to you,

1950
01:18:36.824 --> 01:18:38.903
but in most cases, I think that

1951
01:18:38.903 --> 01:18:40.574
having that practice and
being able to go back

1952
01:18:40.574 --> 01:18:42.269
and ground yourself in it,

1953
01:18:42.269 --> 01:18:43.674
gives you at least enough space

1954
01:18:43.674 --> 01:18:47.129
that you can really do some good work.

1955
01:18:47.865 --> 01:18:49.177
- [Mareika] Yes?

1956
01:18:49.177 --> 01:18:52.219
- [Audience Member Six] Hi,
I want to start by thanking

1957
01:18:52.219 --> 01:18:53.821
Doctor Rodriguez-Keyes,

1958
01:18:53.821 --> 01:18:57.490
and Enroue for speaking to
a couple of my anxieties.

1959
01:18:57.490 --> 01:19:01.054
One being that I feel
too familiar with someone

1960
01:19:01.054 --> 01:19:02.866
who looked and seemed a lot like me

1961
01:19:02.866 --> 01:19:04.665
and how I would handle that,

1962
01:19:04.665 --> 01:19:06.198
and for Enroue,

1963
01:19:06.198 --> 01:19:07.893
that someone would be so different from me

1964
01:19:07.893 --> 01:19:10.273
that I would wonder how
I would handle that,

1965
01:19:10.273 --> 01:19:13.001
so thank you for sharing
your narratives in that way.

1966
01:19:13.001 --> 01:19:15.636
But my response and question is for Arden,

1967
01:19:15.636 --> 01:19:17.239
so, I didn't know you were in this,

1968
01:19:17.239 --> 01:19:18.643
and so I'm very,

1969
01:19:18.643 --> 01:19:20.884
I feel very fortunate to have
you as my policy teacher.

1970
01:19:20.884 --> 01:19:22.312
(panelists laugh)

1971
01:19:22.312 --> 01:19:24.855
(audience laughs)

1972
01:19:24.855 --> 01:19:26.178
- [Arden] If you can imagine what that,

1973
01:19:26.178 --> 01:19:28.315
if you can imagine what
that class is like.

1974
01:19:28.315 --> 01:19:29.220
(audience and panelists laugh)

1975
01:19:29.220 --> 01:19:30.451
- [Audience Member Six] But my gut,

1976
01:19:30.451 --> 01:19:34.189
and I think emotional
response to your narrative,

1977
01:19:34.189 --> 01:19:35.989
your case study was that,

1978
01:19:35.989 --> 01:19:38.996
you were the only one, and that
must have been really tough.

1979
01:19:38.996 --> 01:19:42.061
It seemed like you were
sort of the anti-racism

1980
01:19:42.061 --> 01:19:43.860
or you are the anti-racism,

1981
01:19:43.860 --> 01:19:47.309
racism of your place,

1982
01:19:47.309 --> 01:19:48.737
and I'm wondering,

1983
01:19:48.737 --> 01:19:50.780
I'm thinking about what
Enroue mentioned about,

1984
01:19:50.780 --> 01:19:52.173
sort of finding his people,

1985
01:19:52.173 --> 01:19:53.148
getting his team,

1986
01:19:53.148 --> 01:19:55.076
and if you felt able to do that,

1987
01:19:55.076 --> 01:19:57.014
or if someone was in your
position and felt like

1988
01:19:57.014 --> 01:19:58.477
maybe they're the only one

1989
01:19:58.477 --> 01:20:01.716
and not many people could identify,

1990
01:20:01.716 --> 01:20:04.317
do you feel that you could find your team

1991
01:20:04.317 --> 01:20:06.929
and get more people sort of committed to

1992
01:20:06.929 --> 01:20:09.867
the, your efforts so that
you're not the only one

1993
01:20:09.867 --> 01:20:13.001
and so isolated?

1994
01:20:13.001 --> 01:20:17.831
- I do, and I really have
done my best to try to

1995
01:20:17.831 --> 01:20:20.443
facilitate a lot of
conversations at the hospital.

1996
01:20:20.443 --> 01:20:21.906
I do sit on the Ethics Committee

1997
01:20:21.906 --> 01:20:25.378
and try to really bring
this up as a conversation.

1998
01:20:25.378 --> 01:20:26.945
It's difficult.

1999
01:20:26.945 --> 01:20:29.952
I think that with you, the
situation is that you do have

2000
01:20:29.952 --> 01:20:32.378
to find the community around you.

2001
01:20:32.378 --> 01:20:34.213
I think the more you talk
about it and the more

2002
01:20:34.213 --> 01:20:37.092
you point it out and you
find a few groups of people

2003
01:20:37.092 --> 01:20:39.925
who are able to talk
about it and bring it,

2004
01:20:39.925 --> 01:20:41.655
that it's able to grow,

2005
01:20:41.655 --> 01:20:43.489
and I actually do see it
growing in my hospital.

2006
01:20:43.489 --> 01:20:45.231
I cannot say that it's
just because of me but

2007
01:20:45.231 --> 01:20:49.004
I certainly think that bringing
it into the conversation

2008
01:20:49.004 --> 01:20:50.838
helps, even in little pieces.

2009
01:20:50.838 --> 01:20:52.568
You just have to be patient,

2010
01:20:52.568 --> 01:20:53.834
and while you're being patient,

2011
01:20:53.834 --> 01:20:56.858
you have to find other
people outside of it.

2012
01:21:00.242 --> 01:21:01.508
- [Audience Member Seven] Elizabeth,

2013
01:21:01.508 --> 01:21:05.920
Arden, and Enroue, thank you so much.

2014
01:21:05.920 --> 01:21:10.215
I'd like to make a horizontal
kind of observation.

2015
01:21:10.215 --> 01:21:13.025
I appreciated the

2016
01:21:13.025 --> 01:21:14.163
(clears throat),

2017
01:21:14.163 --> 01:21:17.634
well what I noticed was

2018
01:21:17.634 --> 01:21:21.431
how you maintained sense of humanity,

2019
01:21:21.431 --> 01:21:24.461
both in yourselves and the
people that you worked with,

2020
01:21:24.461 --> 01:21:27.143
and I really appreciated that,

2021
01:21:27.143 --> 01:21:30.126
and so my question is,

2022
01:21:30.126 --> 01:21:32.774
for, well, okay, so,

2023
01:21:32.774 --> 01:21:34.109
you,

2024
01:21:34.109 --> 01:21:38.846
similarly it's a horizontal,
open question for anyone

2025
01:21:38.846 --> 01:21:40.924
who can respond,

2026
01:21:40.924 --> 01:21:42.120
feels like responding,

2027
01:21:42.120 --> 01:21:45.359
so, you were once students

2028
01:21:45.359 --> 01:21:49.318
and now you're in this
role of being a supervisor.

2029
01:21:49.318 --> 01:21:52.464
What,

2030
01:21:52.464 --> 01:21:54.763
what kind of recommendations
would you give

2031
01:21:54.763 --> 01:21:58.501
for students,

2032
01:21:58.501 --> 01:22:00.800
particularly students of color,

2033
01:22:00.800 --> 01:22:04.074
when engaging their supervisor

2034
01:22:04.074 --> 01:22:05.072
around these issues.

2035
01:22:05.072 --> 01:22:06.675
What can we,

2036
01:22:06.675 --> 01:22:08.138
how can we approach,

2037
01:22:08.138 --> 01:22:10.042
how can students approach this?

2038
01:22:10.042 --> 01:22:11.353
What would be,

2039
01:22:11.353 --> 01:22:14.297
what would be a good way?

2040
01:22:16.857 --> 01:22:19.638
(audience and panelists laugh)

2041
01:22:20.723 --> 01:22:23.695
- [Enroue] Does someone
want to jump in on that one?

2042
01:22:23.695 --> 01:22:25.924
- [Elizabeth] You know, I think
it's a dialogue that needs

2043
01:22:25.924 --> 01:22:27.863
to be had with your supervisor,

2044
01:22:27.863 --> 01:22:29.233
but it needs to be, like,

2045
01:22:29.233 --> 01:22:31.566
with a client, a delicate dialogue.

2046
01:22:31.566 --> 01:22:33.540
You can't just say,
okay, I'm Puerto Rican,

2047
01:22:33.540 --> 01:22:35.305
how do you work with Puerto Rican people?

2048
01:22:35.305 --> 01:22:36.338
Eh...

2049
01:22:36.338 --> 01:22:38.567
It just needs to be something delicate.

2050
01:22:38.567 --> 01:22:39.937
You need to feel like your supervisor,

2051
01:22:39.937 --> 01:22:41.412
you need to build your relationship,

2052
01:22:41.412 --> 01:22:43.943
and let your supervisor get to know you.

2053
01:22:43.943 --> 01:22:46.741
I'm not saying self-disclose
about who you are,

2054
01:22:46.741 --> 01:22:48.215
but get to know your ideas of

2055
01:22:48.215 --> 01:22:50.282
where you're coming from and how the work

2056
01:22:50.282 --> 01:22:52.557
impacts you as a person of color.

2057
01:22:52.557 --> 01:22:54.961
I think building the
relationship with your supervisor

2058
01:22:54.961 --> 01:22:56.923
and approaching it that way can help,

2059
01:22:56.923 --> 01:23:01.056
and as you see clients, you can talk about

2060
01:23:01.056 --> 01:23:03.006
the similarities and the
differences that you have with

2061
01:23:03.006 --> 01:23:05.305
your client and the
struggles that you may have.

2062
01:23:05.305 --> 01:23:09.067
I think the conversation,

2063
01:23:09.067 --> 01:23:10.878
I would say start the conversation slowly

2064
01:23:10.878 --> 01:23:12.004
and continue.

2065
01:23:12.004 --> 01:23:15.742
Don't get discouraged if your
supervisor doesn't respond,

2066
01:23:15.742 --> 01:23:17.310
don't get defensive if your supervisor

2067
01:23:17.310 --> 01:23:18.250
doesn't respond.

2068
01:23:18.250 --> 01:23:20.154
Sometimes your supervisor
may not even know how to

2069
01:23:20.154 --> 01:23:22.436
have the conversation.

2070
01:23:27.828 --> 01:23:31.074
- I'm not officially a supervisor, so...

2071
01:23:31.253 --> 01:23:32.496
- I think your supervisor should be able

2072
01:23:32.496 --> 01:23:33.900
to have those conversations.

2073
01:23:33.900 --> 01:23:34.632
- [Enroue] (laughs)

2074
01:23:34.632 --> 01:23:35.863
- [Elizabeth] She should, but it's not...

2075
01:23:35.863 --> 01:23:37.035
- I mean, I'm not saying
that they always do,

2076
01:23:37.035 --> 01:23:40.402
but I do think that
your supervisor should,

2077
01:23:40.402 --> 01:23:41.668
hopefully, be able to do that,

2078
01:23:41.668 --> 01:23:44.744
and if they don't,

2079
01:23:44.744 --> 01:23:45.406
complain,

2080
01:23:45.406 --> 01:23:46.381
(chuckles), no.

2081
01:23:46.381 --> 01:23:47.113
(Audience laughs)

2082
01:23:47.113 --> 01:23:47.983
File a complaint!

2083
01:23:47.983 --> 01:23:48.842
No, I mean, if you're paying them,

2084
01:23:48.842 --> 01:23:49.783
stop paying them, right?

2085
01:23:49.783 --> 01:23:51.548
I mean, but as a student,
you have to do it a little

2086
01:23:51.548 --> 01:23:53.080
differently.

2087
01:23:53.080 --> 01:23:55.216
Or get a new one, but, no.

2088
01:23:55.216 --> 01:23:56.157
I'm kidding.

2089
01:23:56.157 --> 01:23:58.119
I think that that's a very
difficult conversation.

2090
01:23:58.119 --> 01:24:00.255
I think bringing up, asking
someone else to look at

2091
01:24:00.255 --> 01:24:02.194
their own stuff is very difficult,

2092
01:24:02.194 --> 01:24:05.317
but I do think that
bringing it up regularly,

2093
01:24:05.317 --> 01:24:07.569
hopefully with change something.

2094
01:24:07.569 --> 01:24:08.498
- [Elizabeth] But be patient.

2095
01:24:08.498 --> 01:24:10.739
It's not an easy conversation to have.

2096
01:24:10.739 --> 01:24:12.109
I just say you need to be patient.

2097
01:24:12.109 --> 01:24:15.441
Some people are really
comfortable with having

2098
01:24:15.441 --> 01:24:16.579
the conversation,

2099
01:24:16.579 --> 01:24:18.576
and in my work, I've seen
some people that just really

2100
01:24:18.576 --> 01:24:19.830
struggle with it,

2101
01:24:19.830 --> 01:24:21.850
and, I agree with you.

2102
01:24:21.850 --> 01:24:24.253
They should be in a different place, but,

2103
01:24:24.253 --> 01:24:24.915
they're not,

2104
01:24:24.915 --> 01:24:27.922
and that needs to be respected too.

2105
01:24:27.922 --> 01:24:31.091
- [Enroue] And something I would add,

2106
01:24:31.091 --> 01:24:34.063
so you know, you're speaking,

2107
01:24:34.063 --> 01:24:35.457
you know,

2108
01:24:35.457 --> 01:24:38.266
you're speaking to power, right?

2109
01:24:38.266 --> 01:24:41.563
So, there are a lot of
strategies to do that.

2110
01:24:41.563 --> 01:24:44.129
One is really being,

2111
01:24:44.129 --> 01:24:46.799
so do as much work in general,

2112
01:24:46.799 --> 01:24:50.341
on your container, right?

2113
01:24:50.341 --> 01:24:52.941
So that the things that come up,

2114
01:24:52.941 --> 01:24:55.147
so your relationship with your supervisor

2115
01:24:55.147 --> 01:24:57.585
is a formal relationship,

2116
01:24:57.585 --> 01:24:59.454
and so it's also really
important to be clear about

2117
01:24:59.454 --> 01:25:02.485
what the limits and the
boundaries of that are.

2118
01:25:02.485 --> 01:25:04.923
And you then get to determine

2119
01:25:04.923 --> 01:25:08.464
the type of conversation
about that you want to have,

2120
01:25:08.464 --> 01:25:10.565
and that's gonna ease the way,

2121
01:25:10.565 --> 01:25:11.633
so that you're not,

2122
01:25:11.633 --> 01:25:13.363
"Uhhhhh, my god, here's
my most vulnerable thing,

2123
01:25:13.363 --> 01:25:15.163
"putting this out here and" (groans),

2124
01:25:15.163 --> 01:25:15.732
right?

2125
01:25:15.732 --> 01:25:17.206
And anything that comes
on, you're gonna be

2126
01:25:17.206 --> 01:25:18.495
reactive and defensive,

2127
01:25:18.495 --> 01:25:19.830
even if they're supportive,

2128
01:25:19.830 --> 01:25:21.107
'cause that's your expectation

2129
01:25:21.107 --> 01:25:22.709
and that's where your hurt is.

2130
01:25:22.709 --> 01:25:25.310
So the more you can

2131
01:25:25.310 --> 01:25:27.074
work on that piece,

2132
01:25:27.074 --> 01:25:28.317
the easier that is.

2133
01:25:28.317 --> 01:25:32.276
Now, it also means that in the moment,

2134
01:25:32.276 --> 01:25:36.198
you can think clearly about what you want

2135
01:25:36.198 --> 01:25:37.716
and what your needs are
and what the issue is

2136
01:25:37.716 --> 01:25:40.955
about what you need the
supervision to address.

2137
01:25:40.955 --> 01:25:44.427
When we're reactive,

2138
01:25:44.427 --> 01:25:46.493
do we think clearly?

2139
01:25:46.493 --> 01:25:48.165
No.

2140
01:25:48.165 --> 01:25:48.734
Right?

2141
01:25:48.734 --> 01:25:51.300
We don't perceive things clearly, so,

2142
01:25:51.300 --> 01:25:53.007
the more we can kind of
sort some of that out

2143
01:25:53.007 --> 01:25:54.969
to decide the conversation we're having,

2144
01:25:54.969 --> 01:25:56.037
the easier that's gonna be.

2145
01:25:56.037 --> 01:25:59.311
Speaking to power is difficult.

2146
01:25:59.311 --> 01:26:01.343
They often don't want to hear it.

2147
01:26:01.343 --> 01:26:03.374
That's the nature of it.

2148
01:26:03.374 --> 01:26:05.383
So also understand that, kind of going in,

2149
01:26:05.383 --> 01:26:08.947
and maybe there are ways that it can be a

2150
01:26:08.947 --> 01:26:10.317
joint effort, right?

2151
01:26:10.317 --> 01:26:12.221
Not, what are you doing or not doing,

2152
01:26:12.221 --> 01:26:14.555
but, how can we or how can
I better understand this?

2153
01:26:14.555 --> 01:26:16.261
So how can this,

2154
01:26:16.261 --> 01:26:18.560
you know, so shifting
even the perspective,

2155
01:26:18.560 --> 01:26:23.193
and not immediately putting
that person as the other,

2156
01:26:23.193 --> 01:26:25.915
can be helpful.

2157
01:26:27.070 --> 01:26:28.905
- [Mike] If I could just
add to that really quickly.

2158
01:26:28.905 --> 01:26:30.472
And someone who's not a supervisor,

2159
01:26:30.472 --> 01:26:32.341
I think part of it is also,

2160
01:26:32.341 --> 01:26:34.977
find foster supervisors as well,

2161
01:26:34.977 --> 01:26:37.717
so it may not be the person
that you directly work with,

2162
01:26:37.717 --> 01:26:39.783
but someone you can align with within

2163
01:26:39.783 --> 01:26:42.848
an organization or agency,

2164
01:26:42.848 --> 01:26:44.381
and I think what happens oftentimes,

2165
01:26:44.381 --> 01:26:46.958
at least my experiencing
students at Smith,

2166
01:26:46.958 --> 01:26:49.791
is everything is contained
and we have all these

2167
01:26:49.791 --> 01:26:51.892
opportunities for
conversations and dialogue,

2168
01:26:51.892 --> 01:26:54.261
and then you go into your field placement,

2169
01:26:54.261 --> 01:26:57.570
in the middle of god knows where,

2170
01:26:57.570 --> 01:26:59.660
and then all of a sudden you
don't have any resources,

2171
01:26:59.660 --> 01:27:01.134
but you have to be really savvy

2172
01:27:01.134 --> 01:27:03.340
in looking for communities of people

2173
01:27:03.340 --> 01:27:05.511
who are talking about these issues,

2174
01:27:05.511 --> 01:27:07.543
and being savvy about getting support

2175
01:27:07.543 --> 01:27:08.785
because it may be an impasse,

2176
01:27:08.785 --> 01:27:11.653
or you may run into the wall
with your direct supervisor,

2177
01:27:11.653 --> 01:27:13.986
but of course, you have to be

2178
01:27:13.986 --> 01:27:18.068
really creative in finding
various avenues of support.

2179
01:27:21.660 --> 01:27:23.425
- [Audience Member Eight] First
I wanted to thank all of you

2180
01:27:23.425 --> 01:27:25.201
for everything that you've shared,

2181
01:27:25.201 --> 01:27:27.500
and especially Doctor Rodriguez-Keyes.

2182
01:27:27.500 --> 01:27:29.799
Before I started at Smith,

2183
01:27:29.799 --> 01:27:32.272
I worked with adolescents at New Mexico,

2184
01:27:32.272 --> 01:27:35.976
and I dealt a lot with
Latinas and Latinos,

2185
01:27:35.976 --> 01:27:38.797
just sort of coming into their
identity and that struggle,

2186
01:27:38.797 --> 01:27:41.107
so I really appreciated hearing, sort of,

2187
01:27:41.107 --> 01:27:43.986
how you handled it and your experience.

2188
01:27:43.986 --> 01:27:46.715
My quesetion is for Arden.

2189
01:27:46.715 --> 01:27:48.955
You alluded to sharing with us

2190
01:27:48.955 --> 01:27:51.986
the ramifications of filing a complaint,

2191
01:27:51.986 --> 01:27:54.819
and so I'm wondering, just as
far as like how that worked

2192
01:27:54.819 --> 01:27:56.293
in a professional aspect,

2193
01:27:56.293 --> 01:27:58.162
but you also said that,

2194
01:27:58.162 --> 01:27:59.660
it was able,

2195
01:27:59.660 --> 01:28:01.065
you were able to sort of

2196
01:28:01.065 --> 01:28:05.523
bring race and cultural factors
into clinical conversations,

2197
01:28:05.523 --> 01:28:08.135
and I'm wondering sort
of what that looked like,

2198
01:28:08.135 --> 01:28:10.446
just outside of you,

2199
01:28:10.446 --> 01:28:12.315
and like the question
that you're bringing in

2200
01:28:12.315 --> 01:28:14.079
as far as if you saw it with nurses

2201
01:28:14.079 --> 01:28:17.093
and other staff at the hospital?

2202
01:28:17.713 --> 01:28:18.944
- [Arden] So when I filed that complaint

2203
01:28:18.944 --> 01:28:20.012
with Patient and Family Relations,

2204
01:28:20.012 --> 01:28:21.684
I really had to fight to get it,

2205
01:28:21.684 --> 01:28:24.087
and there was a lot of
disregard to what I said,

2206
01:28:24.087 --> 01:28:25.527
and there was a denial,

2207
01:28:25.527 --> 01:28:28.720
and I really,

2208
01:28:28.720 --> 01:28:31.924
I really insisted that they
speak to that particular doctor

2209
01:28:31.924 --> 01:28:33.166
that they find him.

2210
01:28:33.166 --> 01:28:34.362
I really wanted him, sort of,

2211
01:28:34.362 --> 01:28:35.662
sorry, or her,

2212
01:28:35.662 --> 01:28:37.497
(audience laughs)

2213
01:28:37.497 --> 01:28:39.505
found and said something to,

2214
01:28:39.505 --> 01:28:42.303
and I made sure that that happened,

2215
01:28:42.303 --> 01:28:44.405
but it caused a little bit of a stink,

2216
01:28:44.405 --> 01:28:48.341
and it certainly put me
on the map as someone who,

2217
01:28:48.341 --> 01:28:50.477
you have to be a little
bit careful around,

2218
01:28:50.477 --> 01:28:52.044
like I'm sort of the one that's watching,

2219
01:28:52.044 --> 01:28:56.212
so that's not like pervasive,

2220
01:28:56.212 --> 01:28:58.418
but I do think that I'm
somebody who people know

2221
01:28:58.418 --> 01:28:59.358
will always do that,

2222
01:28:59.358 --> 01:29:02.888
and there's some
ramifications to that, right?

2223
01:29:02.888 --> 01:29:04.792
And I was willing to take them, but,

2224
01:29:04.792 --> 01:29:07.497
they certainly were ramifications,

2225
01:29:07.497 --> 01:29:08.937
so I think that that piece is,

2226
01:29:08.937 --> 01:29:13.552
and I also will do things like,

2227
01:29:15.009 --> 01:29:16.913
the other day I,

2228
01:29:16.913 --> 01:29:18.573
I mean there's a lot of
hierarchy in the hospitals.

2229
01:29:18.573 --> 01:29:19.478
If someone asks a question,

2230
01:29:19.478 --> 01:29:23.716
and I cling with my fingernails
to the lowest clinical rung

2231
01:29:23.716 --> 01:29:24.842
of that ladder,

2232
01:29:24.842 --> 01:29:26.456
(audience laughs)

2233
01:29:26.456 --> 01:29:28.453
as a social worker, and,

2234
01:29:28.453 --> 01:29:30.578
barely swinging on it,

2235
01:29:30.578 --> 01:29:33.085
but you do have power in this,

2236
01:29:33.085 --> 01:29:34.560
you have power in where you are,

2237
01:29:34.560 --> 01:29:35.860
and I think as long as you know that,

2238
01:29:35.860 --> 01:29:39.123
and the truth is that
people do sort of know

2239
01:29:39.123 --> 01:29:41.770
that they shouldn't be doing this,

2240
01:29:41.770 --> 01:29:42.664
or if you bring it up,

2241
01:29:42.664 --> 01:29:44.997
people do respond in a way many times,

2242
01:29:44.997 --> 01:29:47.609
and so, the other day,

2243
01:29:47.609 --> 01:29:50.140
there was a patient who I
really felt like was being

2244
01:29:50.140 --> 01:29:54.715
treated differently, because of their

2245
01:29:54.715 --> 01:29:56.979
race as well as the fact that they needed

2246
01:29:56.979 --> 01:29:59.986
an interpreter and the
hospital wasn't getting it,

2247
01:29:59.986 --> 01:30:01.182
and they weren't regularly getting it

2248
01:30:01.182 --> 01:30:01.983
and you see this,

2249
01:30:01.983 --> 01:30:05.117
and I actually listened
to a whole set of rounds

2250
01:30:05.117 --> 01:30:06.719
and then the attending was there,

2251
01:30:06.719 --> 01:30:08.391
and I pulled the attending aside,

2252
01:30:08.391 --> 01:30:11.131
away from everyone else, and I said,

2253
01:30:11.131 --> 01:30:13.964
"I really would like to
believe that this patient

2254
01:30:13.964 --> 01:30:17.134
"would be treated this exact
same way if they were white

2255
01:30:17.134 --> 01:30:19.003
"and they spoke English,"

2256
01:30:19.003 --> 01:30:21.209
and the doctor sort of
stopped and looked at me.

2257
01:30:21.209 --> 01:30:22.439
And she said, "Well, so do I,"

2258
01:30:22.439 --> 01:30:25.110
and I said, "Okay, then I
just want you to make sure

2259
01:30:25.110 --> 01:30:28.391
"that's the case."

2260
01:30:28.391 --> 01:30:30.473
So,

2261
01:30:30.473 --> 01:30:31.948
if you do that every once in awhile,

2262
01:30:31.948 --> 01:30:32.714
(audience and panelists laugh),

2263
01:30:32.714 --> 01:30:33.655
people start looking at you

2264
01:30:33.655 --> 01:30:34.282
(Enroue claps)

2265
01:30:34.282 --> 01:30:35.187
in a little bit of a different way.

2266
01:30:35.187 --> 01:30:36.325
I mean, I said it very quietly,

2267
01:30:36.325 --> 01:30:38.194
I did it sort of subtly,

2268
01:30:38.194 --> 01:30:40.493
but she really, you know,

2269
01:30:40.493 --> 01:30:41.863
I didn't say it in front of people,

2270
01:30:41.863 --> 01:30:45.090
but, she won't do it again, right?

2271
01:30:45.090 --> 01:30:46.159
Hopefully.

2272
01:30:46.159 --> 01:30:47.366
- [Elizabeth] (laughs)

2273
01:30:47.366 --> 01:30:50.588
- If I have anything to do with it.

2274
01:30:50.733 --> 01:30:52.974
- [Annemarie] So regrettably
we're gonna have to

2275
01:30:52.974 --> 01:30:55.005
begin coming to a close.

2276
01:30:55.005 --> 01:30:56.503
I'm just gonna make a few announcements.

2277
01:30:56.503 --> 01:30:59.882
There are a few
student-led groups that are

2278
01:30:59.882 --> 01:31:04.084
having discussions
directly after the panel,

2279
01:31:04.084 --> 01:31:08.519
the Unlearning Racism
group will be in Seelye 206

2280
01:31:08.519 --> 01:31:11.584
and is offering a place to
process feelings and ideas

2281
01:31:11.584 --> 01:31:13.790
that have come up during the panel.

2282
01:31:13.790 --> 01:31:16.530
Also, the Council for Students of Color

2283
01:31:16.530 --> 01:31:19.363
will be meeting in
Mowangie inside the Davis

2284
01:31:19.363 --> 01:31:22.765
Student Center at 9:15

2285
01:31:22.765 --> 01:31:24.669
for self-identified students of color.

2286
01:31:24.669 --> 01:31:26.376
There may be other groups that didn't

2287
01:31:26.376 --> 01:31:28.477
specifically ask us to
make an announcement.

2288
01:31:28.477 --> 01:31:30.369
If there are,

2289
01:31:30.369 --> 01:31:33.040
please, student reps,
be outside in the foyer

2290
01:31:33.040 --> 01:31:35.513
so that people can meet up with you.

2291
01:31:35.513 --> 01:31:39.077
And I really want to
just take an opportunity

2292
01:31:39.077 --> 01:31:42.618
to extend our great appreciation

2293
01:31:42.618 --> 01:31:45.149
and thanks for the sharing of each of our

2294
01:31:45.149 --> 01:31:46.496
panel members tonight.

2295
01:31:46.496 --> 01:31:49.845
(audience and panelists applaud)

2296
01:32:01.171 --> 01:32:05.345
Mike, did you want to say a final word?

2297
01:32:05.907 --> 01:32:07.231
- [Mike] Now that I'm on the spot.

2298
01:32:07.231 --> 01:32:08.311
(laughs)

2299
01:32:08.311 --> 01:32:10.610
No, just want to say that I heard you ask

2300
01:32:10.610 --> 01:32:13.222
a lot of good, thoughtful,
reflective questions,

2301
01:32:13.222 --> 01:32:14.452
so thank you for,

2302
01:32:14.452 --> 01:32:15.509
I mean, we're getting a round of applause,

2303
01:32:15.509 --> 01:32:18.086
but please give yourself a
round of applause as well.

2304
01:32:18.086 --> 01:32:19.329
Stay in the conversation,

2305
01:32:19.329 --> 01:32:20.687
keep doing the work,

2306
01:32:20.687 --> 01:32:22.254
as Arden said, "Break the silence."

2307
01:32:22.254 --> 01:32:23.183
- [Arden] (laughs)

2308
01:32:23.183 --> 01:32:24.505
- [Mike] Make sure that you
keep breaking the silence.

2309
01:32:24.505 --> 01:32:25.944
One love.

2310
01:32:26.135 --> 01:32:28.271
- [Mareika] Please leave your cases.